EveryEvent Dublin

すべてのEventsを見る

Find every event in Dublin

events

Concerts & Live Music
Festivals
Sports & Recreation
Food & Drink
Arts & Culture
Community
Family & Kids
Nightlife
Comedy
Theater
人気の目的地
BaliSedonaLos AngelesCosta RicaNew YorkSan FranciscoAustinMiamiJoshua TreeTulum
すべてのカテゴリを見るすべての目的地を見る

すべての機能を探索

イベントを成長させる強力なツール

プラットフォーム機能

スマートダイナミックプライシング
チケットカテゴリ
座席指定
カート放棄リカバリー
訪問者リカバリー
寄付とスライディングスケール
アフィリエイトシステム
チケットスキャナー
クーポンコード
カスタム質問
チケット共有
アップセルとアドオン
分析とレポート
メールシーケンス
ウェイトリスト / 通知 / リマインダー
探索
Discovery HubArtists & PerformersVenuesKnowledge Base
すべての機能を見る私たちについて
料金ブログ
すべてのイベントを見る

events

Concerts & Live MusicFestivalsSports & RecreationFood & DrinkArts & CultureCommunityFamily & KidsNightlife

人気の目的地

BaliSedonaLos AngelesCosta RicaNew YorkSan Francisco

探索

Discovery HubArtists & PerformersVenuesKnowledge Base

プラットフォーム機能

スマートダイナミックプライシングチケットカテゴリ座席指定カート放棄リカバリー訪問者リカバリー寄付とスライディングスケールアフィリエイトシステムチケットスキャナークーポンコードカスタム質問チケット共有アップセルとアドオン分析とレポートメールシーケンスウェイトリスト / 通知 / リマインダー
すべての機能を見る私たちについて
料金ブログ
ログイン新規登録イベント主催者
  • Browse All Events
  • Concerts & Live Music
  • Festivals
  • Sports & Recreation
  • Food & Drink
  • Arts & Culture
  • Community
  • Family & Kids
  • Nightlife
  • すべてのカテゴリ →
  • All Destinations →
  • For Promoters
  • For Artists
  • For Venues
  • For Festivals
  • For Event Spaces
  • For Nonprofits
  • For Bloggers
  • For Speakers
  • Brand Ambassador
  • Case Studies
  • 35万人以上のバイヤーネットワーク
  • カート放棄リカバリー
  • スマートダイナミックプライシング
  • チケットカテゴリ
  • 定期イベント
  • 座席指定
  • アフィリエイトシステム
  • ウェイトリスト / 通知
  • チケットスキャナー
  • 埋め込みウィジェット
  • Event Syndication
  • Message Center
  • Integrations
  • Reports
  • すべての機能 →
  • 概要
  • The Ecosystem
  • ブログ
  • 用語集
  • Inspiration
  • ヘルプセンター
  • お問い合わせ
  • APIドキュメント
  • ブランドアセット
  • 採用
  • プレス
  • 利用規約
  • プライバシーポリシー

Events

  • Browse All Events
  • Concerts & Live Music
  • Festivals
  • Sports & Recreation
  • Food & Drink
  • Arts & Culture
  • Community
  • Family & Kids
  • Nightlife
  • すべてのカテゴリ →

Getaways

  • All Destinations →

For Organizers

  • For Promoters
  • For Artists
  • For Venues
  • For Festivals
  • For Event Spaces
  • For Nonprofits
  • For Bloggers
  • For Speakers
  • Brand Ambassador
  • Case Studies

機能

  • 35万人以上のバイヤーネットワーク
  • カート放棄リカバリー
  • スマートダイナミックプライシング
  • チケットカテゴリ
  • 定期イベント
  • 座席指定
  • アフィリエイトシステム
  • ウェイトリスト / 通知
  • チケットスキャナー
  • 埋め込みウィジェット
  • Event Syndication
  • Message Center
  • Integrations
  • Reports
  • すべての機能 →

会社

  • 概要
  • The Ecosystem
  • ブログ
  • 用語集
  • Inspiration
  • ヘルプセンター
  • お問い合わせ
  • APIドキュメント
  • ブランドアセット
  • 採用
  • プレス
  • 利用規約
  • プライバシーポリシー
EveryEvent
© 2026 EveryEvent Dublin. 全著作権所有.
Inspiration

Buddhist Psychology Beyondthe Eight Consciousnesses

Thich Nhat Hanh
Thich Nhat Hanh
Apr 26, 2026
10 min read

TLDR: In this 2025 Science Retreat talk, Br. Phap Linh explores how Yogacara Buddhist psychology offers a rigorous, empirically grounded alternative to materialist and idealist accounts of reality. Moving beyond the conventional eight-consciousness model, the talk integrates the three modes of cognition (direct perception, inference, and fallacy), the three realms, and the three moral natures to construct a complete picture of how Store Consciousness, Manas (ego-mind), and Mind Consciousness perceive reality and distort it. The aim is not abstract theory but trained perception—learning to see without the filter of conceptual elaboration, imagination, and identification.

Read · 12 sections

Why materialism fails to account for consciousness itself

Br. Phap Linh opens by naming the central problem with scientific materialism: it attempts to describe reality while excluding consciousness from the picture. Physicalism posits an external, objective physical universe made of matter and energy obeying universal laws, yet everything we know about that world comes through experience. As he puts it: "Everything, and I mean everything, that we experience about this so-called objective external world is an experience." The contradiction is stark. If a theory of everything omits the one thing that makes everything known—conscious experience—then it is not a theory of everything at all.

This is not an attack on empirical science but a recognition of a logical gap. Materialism cannot explain how subjective experience arises from pure mechanism, nor can it account for the apparent coordination between mind and world. Buddhist psychology, by contrast, begins with direct perception and builds outward, treating consciousness not as an anomaly to be explained away but as the ground of all knowing.

How many senses do we really have?

Conventional Buddhist psychology teaches five senses: sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. But Br. Phap Linh points to a historical example—a woman described in the texts as having more than five sensory modalities—to show that the eight-consciousness model is itself a model, a useful map, not an absolute truth. The Yogacara framework extends perception beyond the five senses through the inclusion of mental consciousness and two deeper layers: Manas and Store Consciousness (Alaya-Vijnana).

This expansion reflects a key Buddhist insight: what we call "mind" is not a unified entity but a layered system of knowing. Each layer has its own mode of operation, its own way of grasping and filtering reality. Understanding this structure is essential to understanding how perception becomes distorted and how, through practice, it can be refined.

The three modes of cognition: Direct, inference, and fallacy

Buddhist epistemology distinguishes three ways of knowing. The first is direct perception—the unmediated encounter with sensory data in the present moment. The second is inference—the logical derivation of knowledge from premises. The third is fallacy—the mistaken conclusions that arise from confusion, projection, or false reasoning.

Most of our everyday experience operates through inference and fallacy rather than direct perception. We see a red shape in the distance and infer "car" before we have actually seen a car. We taste something bitter and infer "poison" because of a past association, not because poison has any inherent bitter taste. This habitual overlay of conceptual elaboration is so rapid, so automatic, that we mistake inference for perception. Mindfulness practice, in this light, is the cultivation of direct perception—the ability to notice the raw texture of experience before the mind has collapsed it into a familiar category.

Store consciousness: The repository of habit and identity

Store Consciousness (Alaya-Vijnana) is perhaps the most subtle and misunderstood layer in the eight-consciousness model. It is not a thing or a place, but rather a process of continuous storing, holding, and habituation. Br. Phap Linh describes it as the deepest level of mind, where impressions and tendencies accumulate over lifetimes. It is the "ground consciousness"—the field from which all other consciousnesses arise and into which they deposit their seeds.

Store Consciousness operates without subject-object awareness. It does not have the sense of "I am looking" or "I am thinking." It simply holds, preserves, and broadcasts the vast repository of karmic imprints, conditioned patterns, and identity-formations that constitute what we call the "self." This is why practices aimed at Store Consciousness—such as deep relaxation, certain meditation states, and visualization—can have such profound effects on personality and perception. You are not arguing with a pattern; you are working at the level where patterns are stored and reinforced.

Manas: The ego-mind that claims ownership

Manas is the second-order consciousness that arises from Store Consciousness. Its primary function is ego-identification: it takes the contents of Store Consciousness and claims them as "mine." It is not knowing itself but a reflection, a mirror turned back on the deeper layers. Manas is where the sense of separation originates, where the dualism of subject and object is established and defended.

Unlike Mind Consciousness (which is flexible, aware of multiple simultaneous objects), Manas operates in a more rigid, singular mode. It is fixated, compulsive, and always engaged in a process of comparison, evaluation, and self-protection. It has access to content from Store Consciousness that Mind Consciousness does not have—certain deep patterns and sensations that consciousness cannot directly perceive. This asymmetry is one reason why we can be emotionally reactive in ways we do not consciously understand.

Mind consciousness: The flexible, multi-object awareness

Mind Consciousness is what we usually call "thinking" or "knowing." It has the capacity to be aware of multiple objects simultaneously, to switch between sensory inputs and mental contents, and to engage in reasoning, imagination, and planning. It is the consciousness through which we navigate daily life, solve problems, and relate to others.

However, Mind Consciousness is also the seat of proliferation and distortion. It is here that inference runs wild, that past experiences are projected onto present moments, that narratives are constructed. Because Mind Consciousness is more agile than Manas, it can seem more "true"—we trust our thoughts more readily than our emotional reactions. Yet it is equally subject to habit, to conditioned patterning, to the filter of stored impressions flowing up from deeper layers.

What happens when direct perception meets imagination?

Br. Phap Linh emphasizes that imagination and visualization are not merely evasions of reality—they are also tools for transformation. The distinction is one of intentionality and awareness. When you are lost in imagination without knowing it, you are identified with a false reality. When you engage visualization as a conscious practice—recognizing it as imagination while doing it—you are using the very mechanism that normally distorts perception to retrain perception.

This is not about replacing one fantasy with another but about using the mind's capacity for visualization to dissolve the habitual patterns that keep perception narrow and reactive. For instance, practices involving visualization of light, of interconnection, or of bodhisattva compassion are not meant to convince you that light is literally everywhere or that you are literally a bodhisattva. Rather, they engage deeper layers of mind in a way that direct analytical reasoning cannot reach, seeding new patterns and perspectives that gradually reshape automatic perception.

The three realms and how they structure experience

Buddhist psychology describes three realms: the realm of sensory desire, the realm of subtle form, and the formless realm. These are not geographical locations but qualitative dimensions of consciousness that can be experienced even in this lifetime. The realm of sensory desire is our ordinary waking consciousness, dominated by craving and aversion. The realm of subtle form involves states of meditation and absorption where perception is refined but still has a subtle object. The formless realm corresponds to meditative states where the sense of a separate observer dissolves.

Understanding these realms allows a practitioner to recognize which dimension of consciousness is active at any given moment and how to navigate skillfully between them. A person might access formless states in deep meditation yet remain trapped in sensory-desire patterns throughout daily life. The integration of all three realms—allowing them to inform and refine each other—is part of the maturation of practice.

The three moral natures: Positive, negative, and neutral actions

Buddhist ethics does not rest on abstract commandments but on a clear-eyed understanding of causation. Every action arises from mind and plants a seed in consciousness that ripens as consequence. Actions are classified according to their moral nature: those driven by greed, hatred, and delusion are negative; those rooted in generosity, compassion, and wisdom are positive; and those that are neither—neutral actions—form the bulk of daily movement through the world.

What makes this psychology rather than mere ethics is that Br. Phap Linh uses moral classification to illuminate how consciousness works. A negative action does not simply create future suffering; it reinforces patterns of contraction, defensiveness, and identification with a small, defended self. A positive action reinforces openness, trust, and the sense of interbeing. Over time, the moral nature of our actions literally sculpts the structure of consciousness itself.

How to see without distortion

The practical heart of this teaching is the question: How can we train ourselves to perceive reality as it is, without the distortion that comes from identification, projection, and habitual elaboration? Br. Phap Linh's answer is not a technique but a direction: we must learn to notice the gap between direct perception and conceptual overlay. We must develop the capacity to rest in the suchness—the plain, undeniable texture—of experience before the mind colonizes it with meaning.

This happens through continuous, gentle returning to the body and the breath, through mindfulness of feeling-tone (pleasant, unpleasant, neutral), and through the courage to remain with present experience even when the mind is crying out for a familiar interpretation. It is not about achieving a blank slate but about developing a non-identification with thought and narrative. The thoughts, images, and feelings continue; the difference is that you are no longer compelled to believe them or live as if they were the world.

When Store Consciousness is not driving perception through automatic reactivity, when Manas is not claiming ownership of every experience, when Mind Consciousness is allowed to rest in direct perception rather than spinning into inference—this is the beginning of genuine wisdom. This is seeing reality as it is.

Interbeing and the limits of abstract understanding

A core Plum Village teaching is interbeing—the insight that nothing exists independently but only in relationship. This is not something that can be adequately captured in words or concepts. As Br. Phap Linh cautions throughout this talk: "Whatever is said is less than this. The stuff, the texture of experience—whatever you say about it is a compression, a lossy compression."

He explicitly rejects the request to explain the ultimate nature of reality in theoretical terms. The reason is not obscurantism but fidelity to the nature of knowledge itself. Any description of reality is already a reduction, a map that is not the territory. The wish to have reality explained to us—to replace the living thing with an abstract formula—is itself the mechanism of distortion. Better to cultivate perception that sees directly, to allow practice and sustained attention to reshape understanding gradually, than to seek a final, intellectually satisfying answer that leaves actual experience untouched.

Where to go from here

For those drawn to these ideas, the path forward is embodied practice. Sit with the breath. Notice how attention moves. Observe the space between a sensory impression and the mind's interpretation of it. Engage in visualization practices that consciously use imagination to retrain perception. Study the teachings on the eight consciousnesses not as philosophy but as a manual for observing your own mind. Reflect on how your actions, rooted in positive or negative intention, are shaping the very structure of consciousness itself.

This is not a path of intellectual accumulation but of deepening sensitivity. The more closely you look, the more you notice. The more you notice, the less distortion there is. Over time, the six senses become eight. The eight become a seamless integration. Mind and reality are no longer seen as separate. This is the promise and the practice of Buddhist psychology.

Transcript

[0:04] Dear respected teacher, dear beloved

[0:07] community,

[0:09] today is the 26th

[0:12] of June in the year 2025.

[0:15] We're in the upper hamlet of Plum

[0:17] Village on the last

[0:21] day of our retreat for scientists.

[0:31] Um,

[0:35] it feels

[0:38] very nice to be sitting here

[0:42] and I hope and trust that it feels as

[0:47] pleasant for you as it does for me.

[0:50] Um, I

[0:53] look around the hall and I see so many

[0:56] familiar faces,

[0:58] so many friends. And um, I remember last

[1:03] summer, I think it was in August, um,

[1:06] some of us were invited to join the mind

[1:09] and life Europe summer research

[1:12] institute

[1:14] uh, in Pomaya in Italy. And uh there's

[1:18] some friends here from there. And on the

[1:22] last day uh there was a circle of kind

[1:25] of I can't remember what the idea was

[1:28] but it was sort of like inspirations,

[1:30] ideas, collaborations and I think I put

[1:33] up my hand and and sort of said would

[1:36] anybody be interested in having a

[1:38] retreat for scientists in Plum Village?

[1:42] Um

[1:43] and there was uh some enthusiasm.

[1:47] So we kind of launched into this whilst

[1:50] some there's some part of me that that

[1:52] was thinking I actually can't do this.

[1:56] There's no way I can you know fit this

[1:58] in. I can't plan it all. I can't figure

[2:01] it out. All the logistics. And so um

[2:07] and that was true.

[2:09] Uh and yet we're here. So, how did it

[2:11] happen?

[2:13] Because I didn't have to do it alone.

[2:16] Um so I really want to to kind of just

[2:20] name the sometimes visible sometimes

[2:23] less visible presence of so many others

[2:26] like the the organizing team a large

[2:29] organizing team of brothers and sisters

[2:31] um from upper and lower hamlet um whom

[2:35] you know many many times

[2:39] big shout out to them uh many many times

[2:42] I said I can't deal with this can you

[2:45] help me and then

[2:46] got it and and they did got it because

[2:50] otherwise we also wouldn't be here and

[2:54] uh and many others. Joanna also has been

[2:57] amazing uh indehaticable

[3:00] uh many many times I also said to her I

[3:03] can't deal with this can you help me and

[3:04] she said got it

[3:07] and um and Ellie and as well uh helping

[3:11] so much uh with the pre and post surveys

[3:16] um which which I hope many of you will

[3:19] have seen and and filled in and our

[3:21] wonderful panelists

[3:24] um who were also very compassionate when

[3:26] I didn't answer their emails and when I

[3:29] didn't tell them what the panels were

[3:30] about and and uh and so on and so forth

[3:36] and probably many many others that I'm

[3:38] forgetting.

[3:40] I also just want to name the uh the

[3:43] presence sometimes visible sometimes

[3:45] less visible of all the volunteers

[3:48] helping in so many ways

[3:51] especially our cooking volunteers

[3:54] came somewhat at the last minute and and

[3:56] uh I know have been providing amazing

[4:00] uh food for everyone to enjoy and they

[4:03] and they do it joyfully every time I go

[4:06] past the kitchen you know they're all

[4:08] smiling in and then um and all of our

[4:13] brothers and sisters who are also

[4:15] helping in so many ways preparing the

[4:17] hamlet so beautifully. Uh all the grass

[4:21] was cut and everything was cleaned and

[4:24] prepared and all the flower beds were

[4:27] made beautiful and uh the toilets and

[4:30] rooms are cleaned and the beds made and

[4:32] and I know for the sisters too in lower

[4:34] hamlet

[4:36] and um and and also our brothers and

[4:39] sisters are cooking cleaning throughout

[4:42] the retreat

[4:45] and uh yeah so it's really a a

[4:49] collective manifestation this retreat.

[4:51] It's only possible thanks to everyone

[4:55] working together

[4:57] and that's a very beautiful thing

[5:02] and really it only happens because of

[5:04] all of you

[5:06] right if nobody registered

[5:09] then we would be sitting here kind of

[5:12] okay

[5:15] let's talk about science

[5:18] you know we talking talking to ourselves

[5:20] Um

[5:23] and and really yeah I mean the the kind

[5:26] of

[5:29] this moment of sitting here with you all

[5:32] is also because you all came.

[5:35] Um

[5:37] so thank you for your trust. Thank you

[5:39] for your stepping into the partially

[5:43] known partially unknown phenomenon of

[5:46] this week.

[5:49] And uh yeah,

[5:54] it's a it's a beautiful celebration and

[5:56] realization of many many dreams

[5:59] um of many people maybe all our dreams.

[6:04] We've all dreamed of this in one way or

[6:07] another.

[6:10] So today, um,

[6:14] I'm going to do my best to respond to

[6:16] some

[6:19] wishes that have been been expressed.

[6:24] And uh, just to give you an idea,

[6:30] I was asked by several people

[6:36] to uh,

[6:39] to explain the ultimate nature of

[6:41] reality.

[6:44] So, you know, no biggie. It's like,

[6:50] okay, what what what should I do after

[6:52] that?

[6:55] So, then I had another request um

[6:57] yesterday. So, oh, can you also do

[6:59] nonself? Like, okay, sure, let's do

[7:04] that.

[7:10] I mean, really,

[7:15] I'm kind of serious. Like, do you really

[7:18] expect me to tell you?

[7:22] Like, really?

[7:24] I had a yes. I I see a no. I see some

[7:28] yes. It's a serious question.

[7:33] Yes. You think yes. How many How many

[7:35] yeses? Put up your hand.

[7:37] You got a good number of yeses.

[7:40] [Music]

[7:43] That's the problem.

[7:53] But it's um

[7:56] you when I first came to Plum Village 26

[8:00] years ago,

[8:03] I also had this wish very strongly. Um

[8:07] and I really did expect Tai to tell me.

[8:11] I really did.

[8:14] And then Tai kept talking about being

[8:16] aware of your feet,

[8:18] being aware of the breath.

[8:22] feeling your uh looking into your

[8:25] relationship with your mother, with your

[8:27] father.

[8:30] It's so annoying. Like just

[8:34] why do we have to waste our time

[8:37] doing that? I want you I want you to

[8:39] tell me the ultimate nature of reality.

[8:47] I want you to tell me

[8:52] I want you to tell me something that

[8:54] can't be said.

[8:58] And it's but it's really interesting

[8:59] because I grew up with the idea um I'm

[9:01] you know I read as probably many of you

[9:03] did Stephen Steven Hawkings and and many

[9:07] others and there it's all like about the

[9:08] search for the the guts the grand

[9:12] unified theories right or the toes

[9:15] theories of everything TOE

[9:19] and I really thought that's what we were

[9:21] at some point sooner or later many

[9:23] physicists have promised this and some

[9:24] of them some of them are still promising

[9:26] it that we're going to have a ground

[9:27] unified theory or a theory of everything

[9:30] and I thought that is the kind of uh

[9:33] form that an ultimate understanding

[9:36] should take

[9:38] right theoretical

[9:42] or even in the realm of um philosophy or

[9:46] spirituality or religion I was expecting

[9:48] an explanation

[9:54] a description a form of words,

[10:00] right? Are are you getting this?

[10:03] You see the problem?

[10:06] We want to replace the real with the

[10:10] abstract.

[10:11] And we think that will help. We think

[10:14] that will solve it. If I could just

[10:17] understand, if you could just tell me.

[10:24] So we we really have to look at that

[10:28] and we really have to allow ourselves to

[10:31] let go of that wish

[10:38] because there whatever is said is less

[10:45] is less than this. How can I say

[10:49] this? The the the

[10:52] stuff the the texture of experience

[10:57] whatever you say about it is a

[10:58] compression is a a lossy compression.

[11:04] So we we need to be very careful of

[11:07] theory theories and concepts and

[11:10] descriptions and language in general.

[11:12] Beware the map.

[11:15] I've said it before and I'm going to

[11:17] keep saying it because we're addicted,

[11:23] okay?

[11:25] So, I'm not going to tell you.

[11:31] And and yet we are in this sort of

[11:34] strange moment in our history where my

[11:36] in my

[11:38] I get the sense that

[11:41] um

[11:43] there's a feeling that kind of reality

[11:45] is up for grabs a little bit. There are

[11:47] many many kind of competing

[11:50] descriptions or ways of understanding

[11:52] reality. And just to name a few, of

[11:55] course we have physicalism or scientific

[11:57] materialism, right? The idea that there

[11:59] is an external physical universe made of

[12:02] matter,

[12:04] whatever that is, right? Which matter

[12:07] and energy which obey physical laws um

[12:10] which are the same everywhere throughout

[12:12] time and space except perhaps in the

[12:15] early moments of the big bang

[12:18] and da you know the rest. And um so

[12:22] that's a

[12:24] an account. It's an account which does

[12:27] not

[12:29] mention consciousness.

[12:32] To me, that's that's a bit of a problem,

[12:34] right? If we're trying to have a theory

[12:35] of everything, a description of

[12:37] everything, of the nature of reality,

[12:39] this is a pretty glaring emission.

[12:44] So, I don't know if you've noticed, but

[12:47] everything,

[12:51] and I mean everything,

[12:54] everything that we experience

[12:58] about this so-called objective external

[13:01] world is

[13:04] an experience.

[13:12] I don't know whether that's obvious.

[13:18] So, so I

[13:20] how do you take consciousness out of

[13:22] that? I mean just look at what you are

[13:24] looking at now. The field of your

[13:26] experience now what you are seeing,

[13:29] hearing,

[13:30] feeling, maybe even tasting, smelling.

[13:46] You are looking at your own experience,

[13:51] right? And you know sometimes in

[13:53] Buddhism we say, "Oh, you know, we we we

[13:55] we

[13:57] want to

[14:00] we train ourselves to look at the world

[14:03] as ourselves.

[14:06] And I remember first hearing that and

[14:07] thinking that's quite remote. That's

[14:10] sounds difficult. I have to really oh I

[14:12] have to kind of reorganize all of my

[14:13] thinking.

[14:17] But but really look at it like

[14:19] objectively with scientists, right?

[14:21] We're supposed to be objective.

[14:24] Look at it and realize that this is

[14:26] right now my experience.

[14:29] Do you really think that your experience

[14:31] is not you?

[14:36] Do you really think that your experience

[14:38] is not part of you?

[14:43] How could your experience not be part of

[14:46] you?

[14:47] That would be very strange.

[14:52] So if your experience which is what

[14:55] you're experiencing is part of you then

[14:57] you are looking at you

[15:01] because this I'm pointing this way you

[15:03] have to point this way this is your

[15:05] experience

[15:07] happening now

[15:10] is part of you

[15:15] interesting

[15:17] to me that's interesting

[15:19] so we physicalism. I hope we've just

[15:23] dealt with that,

[15:28] but we also have uh these days we have

[15:31] pansychism. So there's another attempt

[15:33] to sort of say okay well okay we do need

[15:36] to account for consciousness

[15:38] uh so maybe everything is conscious.

[15:42] So oddly it's to me well there are many

[15:46] different kinds of pansychism so I I

[15:47] don't want to you know cast aspersions

[15:50] but there are at least some versions

[15:52] that are very close to materialism. It's

[15:54] actually kind of like matter

[15:56] um with another property

[15:59] called consciousness.

[16:01] Right? So it's still atoms and

[16:04] electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks,

[16:05] whatever. But now they have an extra

[16:07] property like charge and spin and but

[16:10] this one's consciousness.

[16:12] I I don't find it satisfying, but it's

[16:14] interesting that that it's kind of it's

[16:16] had a big resurgence in the last few

[16:18] years. We also have idealism. So

[16:20] idealism is is is another kind of

[16:23] everything is consciousness or

[16:25] everything is in consciousness

[16:28] um

[16:30] but with a different different flavor.

[16:33] And then we have um simulation theory.

[16:38] You know that one? Silicon Valley loves

[16:40] this one.

[16:42] Um, so we're living in a simulation and

[16:45] maybe we're in a simulation inside

[16:48] another simulation inside another

[16:49] simulation and and we don't know if

[16:51] there's a you know a sort of base layer

[16:54] of that stack of simulations.

[16:58] And some people's really really think

[17:00] that I mean they actually think that

[17:01] they can sort of prove that this is the

[17:03] case.

[17:05] Um,

[17:06] so anyway, I'm not really here to to

[17:08] sort of

[17:10] discuss or debate these different

[17:12] theories, but just just to point out

[17:14] that it's it's interesting to me that

[17:17] after a good a solid century of

[17:21] scientific materialism, more or less,

[17:24] um,

[17:25] we're now it's kind of not looking so

[17:28] convincing anymore. And these other

[17:31] other kind of uh sometimes earlier ways

[17:35] of understanding and thinking are coming

[17:37] back and we're trying again. We're we're

[17:39] we're kind of asking these big questions

[17:41] again. What is the nature of reality

[17:49] and we're looking for an answer?

[17:52] we have um

[17:57] and and and many people sort of come to

[17:59] Buddhism and say well what's the

[18:00] Buddhist answer to this question the

[18:02] nature of reality which is why I came to

[18:04] Plum Village the first time around

[18:08] and um it took me a long time to

[18:13] I mean I think I heard it but then it

[18:15] took me a long time to really understand

[18:16] and then an even longer time to actually

[18:18] accept that Buddhism in its in its kind

[18:22] of purest form

[18:25] does not propose an answer.

[18:30] So the in in one way of understanding

[18:33] Buddhism is is the removal

[18:36] of these views and concepts but it

[18:39] doesn't seek to then replace these views

[18:41] and concepts with a better view or

[18:43] concept.

[18:45] And this is really important.

[18:48] So um at some point I I started thinking

[18:53] of this as a kind of radical empiricism

[18:58] and then I discovered that William James

[18:59] had already got there you know a good

[19:01] 100 years ago. So so this is also not

[19:04] new. Um and it's in a sense it's also

[19:08] phenomenology.

[19:10] Someone also asked me the other day are

[19:12] you going to do phenomenology? I think

[19:14] we're always doing phenomenology.

[19:18] Um,

[19:20] so what is phenomenology? It's it's also

[19:22] the ideally the

[19:25] the discipline of um suspending

[19:31] beliefs, notions, conceptual structures

[19:34] about the nature of experience and

[19:37] experiencing it as

[19:40] um in in in

[19:44] a kind of uh in a way that's not

[19:47] mediated by beliefs, views, and

[19:49] concepts.

[19:52] quite hard to do. It takes some

[19:54] practice. And that's also one way of

[19:56] understanding what this practice that

[19:58] we're doing is all about. When we say

[20:00] come back to the body, when we say bring

[20:03] our awareness to the contact of our feet

[20:06] with the ground, some people after a

[20:08] little while, if they hear that a few

[20:10] times and they hear Tai saying breathing

[20:11] in, I smile, you know, breathing out, I

[20:15] enjoy. And they're like, okay, okay,

[20:17] okay, fine. But but then what?

[20:21] No, no,

[20:23] there's no then what?

[20:25] Just keep doing that.

[20:29] Keep doing that and you will see

[20:34] that's the challenge.

[20:38] See for yourself.

[20:44] But it's very hard.

[20:46] So we also try to help each other and do

[20:49] it and it's easier to get there.

[20:51] So

[20:55] I like this idea of kind of radical

[20:57] empiricism of coming back to to look at

[21:00] the nature of experience and not

[21:02] somebody else's experience,

[21:04] right? My experience and not not like my

[21:07] experience a week ago but my experience

[21:10] right now.

[21:12] That's my laboratory. That's where I can

[21:14] experiment. That's where I can see what

[21:17] is going on.

[21:20] Um,

[21:25] so in the rest of this talk, there will

[21:28] be things that I say

[21:31] that kind of might sound like

[21:34] metaphysics or ontology. It will really

[21:37] look and sound like

[21:40] uh I'm saying this is Buddhist

[21:43] metaphysics. But I really want you to

[21:45] remember it is not

[21:49] these are all um

[21:52] temporary

[21:54] tools that we use

[21:57] to remove other views and in the end we

[22:01] have to let go of even the tools the the

[22:05] the removing views tools

[22:08] because they will also get in the way.

[22:13] Um, I remember Tai saying very early on,

[22:16] you know, the the Buddha said that the

[22:18] teachings are like a snake

[22:21] and they can bite you.

[22:24] And I kind of didn't really I was like,

[22:26] okay, yeah, fine. You know, but I didn't

[22:30] really get it. But what he's really

[22:32] saying like be careful. These teachings

[22:35] are dangerous.

[22:37] We use the teaching of non-self

[22:41] to help us remove the view of self

[22:44] because we know the view of self can

[22:46] cause suffering. We observe that it

[22:48] makes us small. It makes us we suffer in

[22:52] countless ways. So we we have this

[22:53] teaching of nonself to help us uproot

[22:55] that view and hopefully suffer less. But

[22:57] if you get attached to the teaching of

[23:00] non-self,

[23:02] that is a far worse suffering

[23:06] because there may be no antidote.

[23:12] It's dangerous. And you might have met

[23:15] some people like that who've been to a

[23:16] few too many retreats,

[23:19] you know, and they start throwing around

[23:21] the non-self teaching.

[23:25] It can be kind of violent.

[23:28] Like imagine if you're in a war zone,

[23:31] you know, if your child has been killed

[23:34] and somebody comes and tells you, "Oh,

[23:36] don't worry. There's no self. Why do you

[23:39] suffer?"

[23:42] How does that help?

[23:46] That's not That's not skillful. That's

[23:49] not wise. It's not compassionate.

[23:53] It's It's useless. It's worse than

[23:54] useless. you're making things worse.

[23:58] So we got to be very careful with the

[24:00] teachings especially with the teachings

[24:03] on the ultimate

[24:06] the nature of the ultimate reality.

[24:09] They are the most dangerous.

[24:14] So

[24:16] warning

[24:21] [Music]

[24:35] [Music]

[25:07] So, we're in dangerous territory.

[25:10] Uh, I see if I can make one thing clear.

[25:13] Um because I've also had this question

[25:15] in the last few days

[25:17] and I talk about physicalism or

[25:18] scientific materialism and I say I'm not

[25:20] so sure you know about the objective

[25:24] existence of matter and energy and the

[25:26] laws of physics as a as a sort of you

[25:30] know cosmos independent from

[25:32] consciousness. When I say I'm not sure

[25:34] about that then people may assume

[25:37] something else very quickly. And this is

[25:40] the question. The question I've heard is

[25:42] along the lines of, "Okay, so are you

[25:44] saying that none of this is real, that

[25:47] this doesn't exist or that it's all in

[25:50] our mind?"

[25:53] No, I I don't think I said any of those

[25:55] things. And I certainly never heard Tai

[25:58] saying any of those things.

[26:01] Right? So, let's be careful not to

[26:03] substitute one thing with another thing.

[26:06] So, we're just removing something. We're

[26:09] trying not to put something in its place

[26:11] and

[26:13] it's going to be a little bit

[26:15] uncomfortable

[26:17] because it's going to make us uncertain

[26:21] and that is just a sort of

[26:23] physiologically uncomfortable thing,

[26:27] but it's not bad. A little discomfort

[26:29] might be a good thing.

[26:32] So, so let's be comfortable with the

[26:34] discomfort of of kind of not knowing.

[26:38] Again,

[26:40] not knowing is wonderful.

[26:43] So, I can look at this and say, I don't

[26:45] know.

[26:48] And then I have a chance. Yeah. Then the

[26:50] mind is a little bit open.

[26:55] So, I'm not saying that this isn't real.

[26:58] I'm not saying that it doesn't exist.

[27:00] It's

[27:02] It's pretty real.

[27:06] I'm also maybe not saying that it

[27:09] exists.

[27:11] Mhm.

[27:13] But if I remove the idea of existing, I

[27:16] don't replace it with the idea of not

[27:18] existing.

[27:22] Anybody know the answer?

[27:27] I've removed the idea of being, right?

[27:29] I'm saying this this

[27:31] it cannot be by itself

[27:37] as an entity as a separate entity but

[27:40] I'm also saying that it's not in the

[27:41] category of non-being where we can all

[27:43] see it

[27:48] interbeing

[27:52] right answer temporary answer okay be

[27:56] careful with that one too is also an

[27:59] instrument. So we use the instrument of

[28:02] into being to help us be freed from the

[28:07] our addiction to to the categories of

[28:11] being and non-being.

[28:15] And but this happens all the time when

[28:17] we say there's no this right no self as

[28:22] in no separate self. It's it's in a way

[28:25] it's already misleading because so I I

[28:27] like sometimes saying with the flower

[28:31] instead of saying it's empty because

[28:34] then people substitute empty for

[28:36] non-existent

[28:37] or they think oh so there's nothing.

[28:40] No, it's it's empty of only one thing

[28:43] which is separateness.

[28:46] So maybe empty is or a little

[28:49] misleading. I like sometimes saying

[28:52] non-separateness. It is

[28:54] non-separateness.

[28:56] There is no separateness.

[28:58] And that's much easier to to see because

[29:01] again we sort of check with our radical

[29:04] eyes of radical empiricism and you look

[29:06] and you see

[29:08] this is in my experience.

[29:13] So how can it be separate?

[29:18] It's in your eyes. It's in your visual

[29:21] consciousness.

[29:24] Where do you find separateness? I don't

[29:26] find it.

[29:33] It's like try to look at it and at the

[29:36] same time

[29:38] take it out of yourself.

[29:42] It's like I I don't know, maybe you're a

[29:44] better surgeon than I am, but

[29:47] I don't have a scalpel fine enough.

[29:52] like

[29:54] it's in me

[29:57] not separate.

[30:01] Not to mention the sun,

[30:07] the rain,

[30:10] time,

[30:13] space,

[30:15] the evolution of life.

[30:18] You can't take out any of those things

[30:21] from this

[30:24] any one of them out. It it collapses.

[30:27] It cannot stand.

[30:31] So what we find is non-separateness.

[30:40] But that's also not metaphysics.

[30:43] It's so tricky.

[30:46] So if if there is any kind of

[30:48] metaphysics, it's a metaphysics of not

[30:51] knowing or a metaphysics of refusing to

[30:53] know.

[30:58] You have to be stubborn

[31:00] and the mind wants to grasp onto knowing

[31:03] very quickly. It's like, oh, I got that

[31:05] now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[31:08] But you have to refuse. Say, no, that is

[31:11] again concept. is just a Buddhist

[31:13] concept, a prettier concept.

[31:17] Don't trust it.

[31:21] Come back to

[31:24] the direct experience.

[31:27] You have like a billionth of a second

[31:29] before your mind jumps onto it and

[31:32] starts

[31:33] naming and

[31:35] categorizing.

[31:38] We try to stay there. it's not so easy.

[31:43] So we have a metaphysics of not knowing

[31:45] or refusing to know and maybe on the way

[31:49] to that there's a kind of uh practice of

[31:53] unknowing.

[31:55] So I'm noticing that I quickly start to

[31:58] know things and I'm aware of the danger

[32:01] of that and so I'm going to practice

[32:04] unknowing. I'm going to practice

[32:07] dissolving what it is that I think I

[32:09] know.

[32:12] And I think that might be safer.

[32:14] Probably also dangerous.

[32:17] Um,

[32:20] so

[32:22] h let's see where do we go from here.

[32:27] Um,

[32:29] some I now now we're really going to get

[32:31] in trouble.

[32:33] Big trouble. I'm going to give you some

[32:35] maps.

[32:37] And I said, you know, we're in the

[32:38] business of removing the maps,

[32:43] but here we go. We're going to give you

[32:45] maps anyway, and maybe these maps can

[32:48] help remove some other maps.

[32:51] So there is in the Buddhist teaching

[32:55] something called the historical

[32:56] dimension

[33:02] uh also known as the conventional truth

[33:05] or the relative truth

[33:08] and that is the one that we're kind of

[33:11] used to uh that's the one that we

[33:13] usually deal with where I am me and you

[33:17] are you right we have different names

[33:20] different passports,

[33:23] different personal histories, different

[33:25] parents, different nationalities,

[33:27] characteristics.

[33:31] We appear to be different,

[33:34] separate,

[33:37] right? We also have um

[33:40] yeah all kinds of categorization, right?

[33:43] I I'm I'm human. I'm not flower,

[33:48] right? I'm human. I'm not tree

[33:55] and tree is not and tree is tree tree is

[33:58] not sun is sun tree is tree cloud is

[34:01] cloud rain is rain

[34:04] that's sort of the normal way of going

[34:06] about things and in that world we find

[34:10] uh also causality

[34:12] so things happen because other things

[34:14] happened

[34:18] um and that's fine It's not bad. It's

[34:21] good. Right? I was saying to someone the

[34:23] other day like if you want to not get

[34:25] run over in the street, it's very

[34:28] helpful.

[34:30] Like if you you see the car coming

[34:33] at 80 km an hour and you say, "I'm one

[34:35] with the car."

[34:37] Well, you you might be,

[34:41] you know,

[34:43] might be a little bit too much one with

[34:45] the car.

[34:46] So beware. Sometimes historical

[34:49] dimension thinking, perceiving is very

[34:52] very helpful.

[34:54] Okay, that's a car. This is human. Human

[34:56] is a little bit fragile. Car's moving

[34:59] fast.

[35:01] I'm going to stay on the side of the

[35:02] road.

[35:06] Very practical. It has to do with uh

[35:09] survival,

[35:12] has to do with our our evolution. It,

[35:15] you know, it's just how we navigate the

[35:17] world. that it's very useful.

[35:19] Um, but we also may have noticed that it

[35:23] that it uh it can make us suffer. It

[35:26] makes us feel alone.

[35:30] We

[35:31] don't really like to feel so separate

[35:36] uh so disconnected.

[35:39] We also

[35:41] can kind of make the disconnection even

[35:43] worse if we if we think you know as I

[35:45] did when I was growing up. I I learned

[35:47] to think I am a semi-stable pattern of

[35:51] neural activity

[35:54] which is already kind of saying I'm my I

[35:57] don't know that was normal for me. I

[35:59] don't know about you, but

[36:01] that was like baseline, you know. So

[36:05] that means somehow I'm my brain or I'm

[36:08] I'm not even my brain. I'm like brain

[36:10] activity.

[36:13] And so I already disconnected myself

[36:14] from my body.

[36:17] I was already kind of disowning my body.

[36:18] I am this. I'm not that.

[36:22] So if there are feelings, it's okay. I

[36:24] can disregard them. They're not

[36:26] important.

[36:27] just messy biology,

[36:30] forget about it.

[36:34] And that all seemed to be fine until my

[36:36] mother died.

[36:38] And then it it wasn't fine.

[36:43] I I tried to rely on it. I tried to say,

[36:45] well, she's also a semi-stable pattern

[36:47] of neuron activity.

[36:49] Brain activity has ceased, so she no

[36:51] longer exists.

[36:54] Right? And it's all, you know,

[36:56] deterministic interactions of matter and

[36:59] energy since the big bang anyway. So

[37:03] none of it matters. There is no such

[37:05] thing as meaning. Meaning is an artifact

[37:06] of, you know, human creation and

[37:10] delusion.

[37:12] Nothing means anything. It's all just,

[37:16] you know, random interactions of

[37:19] particles. So who cares?

[37:22] It's what I was saying looking at my

[37:24] mother's body in the ICU.

[37:30] I thought that made sense.

[37:35] I didn't know. I didn't know better. Of

[37:38] course, it came with a lot of pride and

[37:40] arrogance and certainty.

[37:43] I didn't know. It was like I was I was

[37:44] stabbing myself with these beliefs, with

[37:47] these notions. I was hurting myself. I

[37:49] was hurting my father who was standing

[37:50] next to me weeping,

[37:54] trying to help me connect.

[38:00] St. He was like, "No, but the body,

[38:02] don't dismiss it. Yeah, she's she's

[38:05] dead, but but like that's, you know,

[38:08] this is the body that brought you into

[38:10] this world.

[38:12] This is the body that held you,

[38:15] that showed you how to love.

[38:20] Don't disregard it.

[38:22] Don't say it's nothing. Don't say it's

[38:24] meaningless.

[38:26] Don't be too sure.

[38:29] But I was too sure.

[38:34] And I uh so I numbed myself with these

[38:38] beliefs, with my scientific ideology

[38:43] for as long as I could. I I I kept all

[38:46] those feelings, all the grief suppressed

[38:48] until I came here.

[38:53] And I came here thinking I, you know, I

[38:55] wasn't thinking I'm going to come here

[38:56] to resolve my grief, you know, or to to

[39:00] mourn my mother. I was thinking I'm

[39:02] coming here to learn about the ultimate

[39:05] nature of reality and to try to figure

[39:06] out is it scientific materialism or is

[39:08] it some wacky woo magical mysticism

[39:11] telepathy levitation I don't know

[39:14] altered states of consciousness

[39:19] that's why I thought I was coming but

[39:22] the more I look at it the more I

[39:23] realized that there was something in me

[39:24] that was bringing me here that I didn't

[39:27] even know out.

[39:33] So

[39:34] historical dimension good but limited.

[39:41] And so we also propose another way of

[39:44] looking which we can call the ultimate

[39:50] and this is where we get into problems

[39:53] because if I say ultimate dimension it

[39:54] al this this is the mistake I made. I

[39:57] thought, "Okay, that's the metaphysics."

[40:00] You're saying, "This is ultimate. This

[40:01] is the ultimate nature of reality." I I

[40:04] just superimposed. I heard ultimate. I

[40:05] was like, "Okay, ultimate nature of

[40:07] reality. Got it. That's what we're

[40:08] looking for. Tell me about that. That's

[40:12] interesting.

[40:14] That's the thing I want to know about."

[40:17] So, beware. Maybe that's not what it is.

[40:22] I'm also not sure but my my sense is

[40:25] more and more

[40:27] for me I find it more helpful

[40:30] to to kind of

[40:34] again refuse

[40:37] um the the urge towards metaphysics or

[40:42] ontology or description of the nature of

[40:44] reality. So rather

[40:46] I want to remind myself

[40:51] that there is something fundamentally

[40:53] unknowable, unsayable and mysterious.

[40:57] And I want to keep it mysterious because

[40:59] mysterious is so much more interesting.

[41:05] Like if I know it,

[41:08] if somebody told me and then I told you

[41:10] and we were like, "Okay, that's that's

[41:11] it. We're done." It's so boring.

[41:16] Yeah. Then then what? Just walk around

[41:18] knowing it. I know it. I know it. I know

[41:22] it.

[41:23] I can't think of anything worse.

[41:27] So refuse,

[41:30] refuse to know. And instead we can

[41:33] understand these two

[41:35] uh teachings as um as uh two ways in

[41:41] which this ultimately completely

[41:44] mysterious whatever it is

[41:47] appears to us.

[41:52] Right? So there's something about the

[41:54] way we are constituted

[41:56] which makes it such that there are at

[42:00] least two fundamentally different ways

[42:04] that this mysterious nature of whatever

[42:06] it is manifests to us or appears to us.

[42:15] Okay. So there's one way of looking and

[42:19] thinking and seeing and being and

[42:20] walking around and not getting run over

[42:22] by cars in which we we perceive things

[42:27] as separate and outside of each other.

[42:31] But there's another there's something

[42:33] about the way we are constituted which

[42:36] is such that we can also

[42:41] have the experience

[42:43] that things are interconnected and

[42:46] inside of each other.

[42:50] Right? So I can look at the flower and I

[42:53] can see the sun.

[42:55] I can see the sun in the flower. I mean

[42:57] I'm not making this up. This is not

[42:59] poetry. I can see the sun in the flower.

[43:02] I can see the rain

[43:05] in the flower. And

[43:08] we're going to get into this question of

[43:10] imagination a little bit later because

[43:11] it's to some extent imagination.

[43:14] But with training,

[43:18] something happens. Something begins to

[43:20] happen.

[43:23] So we kind of train ourselves to look

[43:26] again.

[43:29] And where do we look to find this this

[43:33] interconnected

[43:35] experience?

[43:37] We look here.

[43:41] You look into the historical dimension.

[43:44] You look closely enough with the eyes of

[43:47] a scientist,

[43:49] right? You look deeply enough and what

[43:51] you find is only interconnection. It's

[43:53] only interdependence.

[43:57] But remember not as a theory of

[44:00] everything but as an experience as a way

[44:02] of perceiving.

[44:07] Okay.

[44:09] So um we can also draw some parallels

[44:15] um between these two ways of thinking,

[44:18] ways of knowing, ways of speaking, ways

[44:20] of perceiving,

[44:22] ways of experiencing

[44:24] um which which may be partly helpful.

[44:29] Um,

[44:31] so

[44:34] let's put the

[44:38] ultimate here.

[44:42] I like to put the ultimate on the left

[44:44] because maybe the right hemisphere

[44:48] finds it easier to experience the world

[44:50] in terms of the ultimate.

[44:55] And we put the historical on the right

[44:58] because the left hemisphere seems to

[45:01] like

[45:03] looking and knowing at things in terms

[45:05] of

[45:06] separateness, categorization so on.

[45:11] Uh so there's a wonderful physicist some

[45:13] of you may have heard of called David

[45:15] Bow and he coined two words

[45:20] um which he called the implicate the

[45:23] implicate order and the explicate

[45:29] order and Tai would very often connect

[45:32] these. So in the explicate order

[45:35] everything is explicited it's outside

[45:38] everything is outside of everything

[45:39] else. Everything is parts

[45:42] and separate sort of pieces and in the

[45:44] implicate cord order everything is

[45:46] implicit in everything else. It's more

[45:49] like a kind of he saw it as like a

[45:51] holographic nature of reality. So you

[45:54] know you look into any part you find the

[45:56] whole.

[45:58] We can also think about um

[46:02] Tai would sometimes use words from

[46:04] western philosophy. So for those of you

[46:06] who who are familiar with that, it may

[46:08] be helpful. He talked about the numinal

[46:15] and the phenomenal.

[46:21] Um, and if it if these words are not

[46:23] familiar to you, don't worry about it.

[46:26] Right? It's not like by understanding

[46:27] these words that you're going to

[46:29] understand the nature of your

[46:30] experience. It's more like if you

[46:31] already know these words then it might

[46:33] be help just some more signposts that

[46:37] can be helpful.

[46:40] So phenomenal is just there are

[46:41] phenomena they are separate they are

[46:43] nameable categorizable and so on and and

[46:45] at the level of the numinal there is

[46:49] something else.

[46:53] Um we can think about uh the temporal,

[46:59] we think in terms of time

[47:01] and maybe the eternal. I mean this is

[47:04] just like don't take it too seriously.

[47:07] Okay.

[47:09] Um but there's something it is possible

[47:13] again in the realm of experience to sort

[47:16] of experience

[47:19] eternity in the present moment.

[47:22] Right? And how do we do that? We do that

[47:25] by again looking into the historical

[47:27] dimension. We see like okay the whole of

[47:31] the past has conditioned and given rise

[47:34] to this moment. So there's a sense in

[47:36] which the whole of the past is in this

[47:38] moment. It is the nature of this moment

[47:43] and this moment is the ground of the

[47:46] entirety of the future.

[47:50] Right? So this this moment also has the

[47:53] whole future unfolding of whatever this

[47:56] is in it.

[47:59] Okay. So again I don't say this as as a

[48:02] theoretical thing. I say this as

[48:03] something to to meditate upon to see if

[48:06] we can touch in our experience.

[48:11] Um, we can also think of the spiritual

[48:19] and the mundane

[48:22] or the worldly.

[48:25] Um,

[48:27] and I just like again this is not so

[48:30] important but

[48:32] may or may not be helpful. We can think

[48:34] about mythos

[48:37] and logos.

[48:39] So these are

[48:43] two ways of speaking almost two ways of

[48:45] thinking and knowing and speaking that

[48:48] are fundamentally different and maybe

[48:50] seemingly incompatible but actually

[48:53] we've we've in our history we've used

[48:56] these two ways and we've we used to know

[49:00] when to use which one, right? So we use

[49:04] logos,

[49:06] you know, when we need to get something

[49:08] done, build a house, uh a hole, you

[49:11] know, whatever we think is important,

[49:15] but when somebody dies,

[49:17] right, you you don't stick in the realm

[49:19] of logos, it doesn't help. So we need to

[49:23] move

[49:25] in in the in matters of spiritual

[49:27] experience, in matters of of

[49:30] Yeah. uh

[49:36] deep spiritual experiences. You can't

[49:39] like to use the language of logos is

[49:42] very strange. It's pointless. It's it's

[49:45] not helpful. So there we have these two

[49:48] ways of knowing and speaking

[49:52] and um

[49:54] yeah any for anybody who's read in

[49:56] McGillchrist I'm not going to go down

[49:58] this rabbit hole I promise but maybe

[50:01] it's worth looking into the left

[50:03] hemisphere's way of bringing reality

[50:06] into being and the right hemisphere's

[50:08] way of bringing

[50:11] the world into being

[50:14] and they are

[50:17] Um,

[50:20] okay.

[50:22] So, part of our practice is to learn how

[50:25] to navigate and which one to apply when,

[50:29] right?

[50:30] just as you know when um

[50:36] that you know there are situations like

[50:38] I described when it would be very

[50:39] inappropriate to to sort of try to use

[50:42] the words of uh the historical truth.

[50:47] There are other situations where it is

[50:49] inappropriate and I've already said that

[50:51] a little bit to to to use the language

[50:53] of the ultimate truth. It it could be

[50:54] spiritual bypass.

[50:57] If you have somebody in front of you who

[50:59] has just experienced a loss or a trauma

[51:03] or you know is in grief or in is in

[51:06] immediate suffering

[51:09] to start you know going on at them about

[51:11] the ultimate truth and say oh

[51:13] everything's fine we all inter you know

[51:15] everything's interconnected

[51:18] don't be a victim

[51:21] it's it's not okay

[51:24] and we really need to check ourselves

[51:28] as a spiritual community maybe as the

[51:30] plumbumberish tradition.

[51:34] Do we sometimes do this? Yes,

[51:40] we need to be very careful and we need

[51:42] to be very compassionate.

[51:44] You know when somebody's in suffering

[51:46] there are so many ways we can help them.

[51:48] Help them first of all just to be with

[51:50] the suffering to calm it, to soothe it,

[51:54] just to accept and you just say, "I know

[51:56] your suffering.

[52:00] That's why I'm here for you.

[52:03] I'm going to be with you in your

[52:05] suffering."

[52:07] You don't immediately start bashing them

[52:09] over the head with the ultimate truth.

[52:13] And and it's not that I don't think the

[52:15] ultimate truth is useful to help

[52:16] transcending suffering. Of course it is.

[52:19] But first you got to calm it down. You

[52:20] got to soothe it. We got to, you know, I

[52:24] call it taking care of the mammal. We're

[52:26] also a mammal and you just got to take

[52:28] care of the mammal. The mammal needs

[52:29] care. The mammal needs love. The mammal

[52:31] needs reassurance, needs acceptance,

[52:35] needs trust, needs connection.

[52:40] And maybe, you know, when we're a little

[52:43] bit calmer, we've regained our

[52:46] stability, then we can start

[52:49] looking at the ultimate truth because we

[52:52] also have to go there if we really want

[52:53] to free ourselves.

[52:59] Okay.

[53:01] So, let's go on.

[53:06] [Music]

[53:22] [Music]

[53:46] So sometimes sometimes Tai would um

[53:51] do his uh do a little move that he

[53:53] called the Zoro,

[53:56] right? This this is this is Zoro. Okay,

[54:01] we need a new pen for Zoro.

[54:17] So this this is what Tai would uh refer

[54:21] to as the wisdom of adaptation. It is

[54:24] the types all many different kinds of

[54:26] practice that help us to traverse this

[54:30] apparent

[54:32] space or this apparent distinction

[54:34] between the historical and the ultimate.

[54:37] So these are practices ways of looking

[54:40] that help us to bridge the apparent

[54:43] divide.

[54:45] Um, and one basic way that we've already

[54:48] been learning about and that we can

[54:50] apply again and again in so many ways is

[54:53] to look with the eyes of interbeing.

[54:57] So into being is very skillful because

[54:59] it starts with it still has being in it.

[55:03] Right? So we still we start with things

[55:06] that appear to exist and appear to be

[55:08] separate and we can say this is a

[55:10] flower. But then we start looking at it

[55:12] more closely and we discover everything

[55:16] else. Right? So it's um it's a

[55:22] it's a way

[55:24] of looking a way of investigating

[55:28] that helps us to move fluidly

[55:32] and we can go in both directions.

[55:37] And then as we get more and more

[55:39] skillful with that, what we find, and

[55:42] sometimes Ty would draw this, is that

[55:43] the two

[55:46] are not two,

[55:48] right? The historical and the ultimate,

[55:51] they're more like two facets,

[55:54] two appearances of one reality.

[56:00] So, um, again, don't get caught in the

[56:04] map.

[56:06] Um

[56:08] the other day we spoke about or the

[56:10] other two days I think we spoke about um

[56:12] Buddhist psychology and this this

[56:14] beautiful model the circle eight layers

[56:18] of consciousness. You have the five

[56:20] sense consciousnesses. Mind

[56:22] consciousness

[56:23] which is the sixth manas or mentation

[56:28] the this the kind of self concept which

[56:31] is the seventh and store consciousness

[56:33] which is the field of all the seeds

[56:36] which is the eighth.

[56:40] And I don't know if you if anybody

[56:42] noticed in uh Ruth's presentation

[56:44] yesterday

[56:46] uh she had more than five sensory

[56:49] consciousnesses

[56:50] which I which is very cool. Did you did

[56:52] you count? Yeah, somebody counted eight.

[56:54] I also counted eight. There may be even

[56:56] more but but I think we had so the

[56:59] normal five like seeing you know visual

[57:01] auditory

[57:03] alactory gustatory smata sensory but

[57:06] then also uh propriceptive right the

[57:09] sense of you can close your eyes and you

[57:11] know where your limbs are in space

[57:13] interceptive which is actually probably

[57:17] multiple but it's all the different

[57:19] sensory pathways that tell us the kind

[57:21] of homeostatic condition of our body. So

[57:26] it it can be blood pressure, uh

[57:29] breathing rate, heart rate.

[57:32] We have osmo sensors which is which

[57:34] measure the stress on our bones. Um and

[57:38] many many many heat, cold, pain, uh

[57:42] gentle touch, pin prick, many many many

[57:45] different sensory pathways

[57:49] which can be summarized with this

[57:50] interceptive. It's like the state of our

[57:53] body in the present moment. And then uh

[57:56] vstibular, right? That was the other

[57:58] one. So this the you can close your eyes

[58:00] and you also know where up and down is,

[58:02] right? We have this sense of

[58:05] of uh balance.

[58:09] So So that's nice. We can uh we can we

[58:14] can take a list and make it into a

[58:16] longer list.

[58:19] Um so instead of eight consciousnesses

[58:21] now we have 11

[58:24] right because this five sense

[58:27] consciousnesses now plus three

[58:29] so we have eight sense consciousnesses

[58:31] and then mind consciousness manas store

[58:35] at least

[58:38] um and

[58:41] now we're going to see if we can get

[58:43] into some new territory

[58:46] we don't often get to teach this because

[58:48] usually, you know, all that store

[58:50] consciousness stuff we, you know, we

[58:51] sometimes do it on the last day, but

[58:53] since we already did it on the first

[58:54] day, that allows us to to play uh and to

[58:57] go a little bit further.

[59:00] Um, so I haven't heard this taught since

[59:04] Tai taught it in I think last time I

[59:07] heard Tai teaching it was maybe 2006

[59:10] in the neuroscience retreat.

[59:13] Um,

[59:15] so we talk about

[59:17] modes and realms.

[59:21] How much room do I need?

[59:24] Uh, okay. Maybe I need a bit more room.

[59:47] So these are Oh, is there a new marker

[59:51] by any chance? Sound team

[59:56] seem to be done.

[1:00:02] Oh, these ones. Okay.

[1:00:05] So these are modes um modes of uh

[1:00:09] cognition

[1:00:12] and um

[1:00:16] so again not the nature of reality

[1:00:19] nature of perception.

[1:00:24] Thank you. Oh it's blue. Okay. I've

[1:00:27] already got a blue one. It's okay. Thank

[1:00:28] you. Some reason I like black. But blue

[1:00:32] is also good. That's my mind of

[1:00:34] discrimination.

[1:00:36] All right. So, um,

[1:00:41] so we have modes of perception or modes

[1:00:44] of cognition

[1:00:48] and there are

[1:00:51] in the

[1:00:53] tradition we identify three.

[1:00:57] And the first is direct.

[1:01:01] And this is interesting because most of

[1:01:04] modern science says that this is not

[1:01:06] possible,

[1:01:08] right? We only have mediated, you know,

[1:01:10] perception mediated by imperfect sensory

[1:01:14] organs.

[1:01:16] So this is interesting. True or not

[1:01:18] true? I don't know. But interesting.

[1:01:23] Um so in the mode of direct perception

[1:01:29] um

[1:01:31] this is uh way in which we encounter

[1:01:34] reality with no discrimination,

[1:01:39] no uh and no speculation, no mental map

[1:01:44] making, theory making, no conceptual

[1:01:47] intervention,

[1:01:49] no language.

[1:01:52] just direct

[1:01:55] and um if we think of the uh

[1:02:01] and maybe I'll just put it down here for

[1:02:03] reference,

[1:02:06] we have our nice model

[1:02:10] with the five or eight sensory

[1:02:13] consciousnesses,

[1:02:16] right? And the

[1:02:19] this is the sixth.

[1:02:21] This is the seventh

[1:02:24] and this is the eighth

[1:02:27] and these are the five.

[1:02:33] So if I say the the five, the sixth, the

[1:02:35] seventh or the eighth, you you know what

[1:02:37] I'm talking about.

[1:02:39] So um the five sense consciousnesses or

[1:02:43] eight and according to the teaching have

[1:02:46] the possibility of being in the mode of

[1:02:50] direct

[1:02:52] perception

[1:02:54] when they are not collaborating with

[1:02:56] mind consciousness. So they operate

[1:02:59] directly with with store without the

[1:03:02] intervention of mind. So the

[1:03:03] intervention of mind is the naming,

[1:03:06] identifying,

[1:03:08] speculating, inferring

[1:03:12] and so on. Um and also without the

[1:03:16] intervention of the seventh.

[1:03:20] Let's do a little experiment.

[1:03:26] Quite often when we feel something,

[1:03:30] let's say you have a sensation in your

[1:03:32] body. I hope you have a sensation in

[1:03:33] your body right now and you find a

[1:03:36] sensation. It might be pleasant, might

[1:03:38] be unpleasant, it might be neutral,

[1:03:41] might be mixed. There might be a little

[1:03:44] bit of tension, a little bit of

[1:03:47] something somewhere.

[1:03:49] Um,

[1:03:52] as you feel that,

[1:03:55] see if you can notice

[1:03:59] the way in which

[1:04:01] kind of unconsciously

[1:04:05] there's a feeling of this is my feeling.

[1:04:11] That's the normal way of feeling.

[1:04:14] And now as you are feeling that

[1:04:18] see if you can to whatever extent

[1:04:24] take away

[1:04:26] the notion or the assumption that it is

[1:04:29] my feeling and just experience it as

[1:04:32] feeling.

[1:04:33] There is feeling

[1:04:50] So it's possible quite subtle quite

[1:04:54] difficult the the my feeling bit comes

[1:04:56] in very fast and you might touch for a

[1:04:59] moment the just just feeling and then

[1:05:01] very quickly it gets reappropriated in

[1:05:04] my feeling.

[1:05:06] I like I don't like I want more. I want

[1:05:08] less. I don't want anything. I wanted an

[1:05:11] ice cream.

[1:05:14] I didn't order this. You know, I ordered

[1:05:17] French fries.

[1:05:19] You brought me a sandwich. You know, we

[1:05:21] we we we we have all kinds of things

[1:05:24] that that that follow on from this my.

[1:05:28] Once you have my, you have a whole chain

[1:05:30] of confusion.

[1:05:32] So, it's very interesting to experiment

[1:05:33] with can I feel just feeling without

[1:05:37] appropriation.

[1:05:39] So this might be a kind of uh beginning

[1:05:43] of experience of of this possibility of

[1:05:46] direct perception. Usually it's very

[1:05:47] brief

[1:05:49] mind consciousness. The sixth also can

[1:05:54] perceive in the mode of direct

[1:05:56] perception

[1:06:00] but it's very rare, very difficult and

[1:06:03] probably takes a lot of training.

[1:06:07] So it's very difficult for mind

[1:06:10] to perceive without

[1:06:13] mental elaboration and

[1:06:16] um so this would be mind also without

[1:06:20] language

[1:06:22] a little bit tricky

[1:06:24] but possible.

[1:06:27] Um

[1:06:29] so mind when it intervenes it also

[1:06:32] discriminates it says it names very

[1:06:34] quickly. It's very hard. You may like to

[1:06:36] try as well. You walk around, try to

[1:06:39] look and see and feel without naming,

[1:06:41] without identifying.

[1:06:45] Tricky, but possible.

[1:06:48] But mind comes very quickly and says

[1:06:50] this is a tree. Maybe even which kind of

[1:06:52] tree, this is a nice tree, this is not a

[1:06:54] nice tree, I like this tree, I don't

[1:06:55] like this tree. All kinds of things

[1:06:57] start happening. And once we identify

[1:07:00] something as say flower,

[1:07:06] you also have the implicit statement of

[1:07:10] this is not

[1:07:12] a cloud, right? Flower is flower, cloud

[1:07:15] is cloud. These are different. That's

[1:07:18] mind discriminating, chopping reality

[1:07:22] and experience into pieces with the

[1:07:25] sword of discrimination.

[1:07:29] So uh this is the first mode of

[1:07:32] perception. Then we have

[1:07:35] the mode of inference

[1:07:41] also

[1:07:43] deduction and induction.

[1:07:46] Um

[1:07:48] and uh this is the mind that tells you

[1:07:51] when you see smoke say oh there must be

[1:07:53] a fire. Right? Right? So you don't see

[1:07:55] the fire, you see the smoke and your

[1:07:58] mind sees fire.

[1:08:01] You you have inferred from smoke the

[1:08:04] presence of fire. And we also do this

[1:08:07] all the time and we do it very rapidly

[1:08:09] without noticing that we're doing it.

[1:08:12] Um there are two ways uh that we can use

[1:08:16] this mind of inference. It's either

[1:08:19] alone or collectively.

[1:08:22] So in the research community, we may be

[1:08:25] doing kind of collective

[1:08:27] inference. I make an inference, you make

[1:08:30] an inference, we check, we compare, we

[1:08:31] say, "Okay, we agree

[1:08:34] and and we and we proceed." Again, I'm

[1:08:36] not not necessarily bad like this is

[1:08:38] this is good. And most

[1:08:41] I would say most of scientific research

[1:08:44] happens with this mind, the mind of

[1:08:46] investigation,

[1:08:48] reasoning, inference, deduction.

[1:08:53] Um,

[1:08:56] and really

[1:09:00] it only has access to the historical

[1:09:04] dimension, this mind.

[1:09:08] But with some care it might actually

[1:09:09] help us help to lead us to the ultimate

[1:09:11] dimension. Okay. So even at the

[1:09:14] beginning looking with the eyes of

[1:09:16] interbeing is a kind of inference or

[1:09:19] deduction. I once asked Tai this

[1:09:21] question and it because it kind of

[1:09:22] annoyed me and I was a bit confused. You

[1:09:24] know you talk about eating meditation.

[1:09:26] You you true the piece of carrot and you

[1:09:28] see the field where it was planted and

[1:09:32] you see the stars and the moon and the

[1:09:34] sun and the wind and the rain and the

[1:09:36] farmers and the and I was like but isn't

[1:09:40] that just my imagination? Right? Aren't

[1:09:44] I just thinking and I have to know those

[1:09:46] things in advance, right? I have to know

[1:09:48] about carrots and what they looked like

[1:09:50] in a field and how they were planted and

[1:09:52] Right. Right. So I'm I'm kind of using

[1:09:54] knowledge

[1:09:57] and I what I wanted to know is that is

[1:09:59] there some mystical state of using the

[1:10:01] eyes of interbeing where you just see

[1:10:02] boom

[1:10:04] no knowledge no inference no deduction.

[1:10:09] The form of the question I asked Tai was

[1:10:11] like this. I because Tai used to

[1:10:13] sometimes use the example of an orange

[1:10:14] tree. They say when you see the orange,

[1:10:20] you see the tree.

[1:10:23] You look deeply into the orange and you

[1:10:24] see the tree and you see the the blossom

[1:10:28] orange blossom in the spring.

[1:10:32] So my question to Tai was, what if

[1:10:33] you've never seen an orange tree?

[1:10:36] Right? If you've never seen an orange

[1:10:39] tree and you look deeply into an orange,

[1:10:41] do you still see an orange tree?

[1:10:45] I wanted to know is there magic

[1:10:47] basically. Do you look at it?

[1:10:50] You know, omniscience because that would

[1:10:53] be kind of cool. You look at things and

[1:10:55] just know

[1:10:57] I see your true nature.

[1:11:02] And I wanted to know. So I asked, "Hey,

[1:11:05] is it this, you know, are you just

[1:11:07] saying we're going to use things we

[1:11:09] already know about orange trees? And

[1:11:11] this only works if you've seen orange

[1:11:12] trees in books, in photos, in

[1:11:13] documentaries, in reality, and then you

[1:11:16] look deeply and you use your memory and

[1:11:18] your knowledge. Or is it magical,

[1:11:21] mystical,

[1:11:23] kapow?

[1:11:25] So, what do you think Tai said?

[1:11:31] He actually said, "Keep practicing.

[1:11:41] make of that what you will.

[1:11:47] So in a in one sense all this business

[1:11:51] of meditating that we're doing and all

[1:11:52] the practices that we're doing all this

[1:11:55] interconnected ecology of practices that

[1:11:57] we offer you in the container of a

[1:12:00] retreat

[1:12:01] is to

[1:12:03] learn to remove the mind of

[1:12:07] discrimination.

[1:12:09] Not to remove forever and never pick it

[1:12:12] up again. But it's like if if it's all

[1:12:14] if the sword of discrimination is always

[1:12:16] in our hand, then all we get is pieces,

[1:12:20] right? We just constantly cutting

[1:12:22] reality into pieces and we cut

[1:12:26] ourselves.

[1:12:28] So, we have to know when to put it down.

[1:12:32] Right? The mind of uh discrimination is

[1:12:34] not necessarily a bad thing, but let's

[1:12:37] not make it so that it's involuntary or

[1:12:40] so that it's kind of a compulsion. We

[1:12:43] have to be able to have the option to

[1:12:47] put it down.

[1:12:49] I find that worth doing a lot of walking

[1:12:53] meditation for and breathing and all the

[1:12:55] other things. Not that we're

[1:12:57] instrumentalizing meditation, by the

[1:12:59] way.

[1:13:01] Um we have the third mode of cognition

[1:13:04] which is fallacy.

[1:13:09] So

[1:13:11] um

[1:13:13] this is the mode of cognition of of the

[1:13:16] seventh consciousness of manass

[1:13:20] because it already assumes the existence

[1:13:21] of separate selves. It sees everything

[1:13:23] in terms of separate selves and it's

[1:13:24] kind of always wrong. Not necessarily

[1:13:27] useless but always wrong.

[1:13:30] Um, and it can be wrong direct

[1:13:35] or it can be wrong inference.

[1:13:39] So it's, you know, we have intuition,

[1:13:42] right? And and sometimes we, oh, you got

[1:13:43] to trust your gut. Trust your intuition.

[1:13:45] Intuition can be wrong.

[1:13:48] It can also be right.

[1:13:51] But be careful. Just because you have a

[1:13:52] gut feeling doesn't make it true.

[1:13:55] Doesn't make it correct. If you take

[1:13:57] your gut feeling and then look at it

[1:14:00] with the eyes of self or through the

[1:14:02] eyes of self, you may end up being very

[1:14:05] wrong.

[1:14:07] So be careful. But intuition can also be

[1:14:09] trained.

[1:14:12] Um,

[1:14:14] manas

[1:14:16] the seventh consciousness

[1:14:19] uh is this instinctive

[1:14:23] um unconscious

[1:14:26] uh identification with the body

[1:14:28] primarily with this is me, this is mine,

[1:14:32] my my body, my feelings, my thoughts, my

[1:14:34] perceptions, my consciousness.

[1:14:38] It sees things in the in the terms of uh

[1:14:40] self delusion,

[1:14:45] self-love.

[1:14:46] So, it's basically like this self is

[1:14:50] more important. I'm going to care about

[1:14:51] this one more even if I hate it, right?

[1:14:56] We can have self-loathing.

[1:14:58] Do we need a new battery?

[1:15:02] We can have self-loathing

[1:15:04] and self-love at the same time. If you

[1:15:08] haven't noticed,

[1:15:10] uh it it has self view. It sees

[1:15:13] everything in terms of self. Not only

[1:15:14] itself, but everybody else and

[1:15:16] everything else.

[1:15:18] And it has self conceit, which is

[1:15:21] basically like look after number one,

[1:15:24] right? take care of this first. This is

[1:15:26] more important.

[1:15:29] Um, and we learned all the other

[1:15:31] characteristics, right? It it it always

[1:15:33] pleasure seeking, pain avoiding,

[1:15:37] ignoring the dangers of pleasure

[1:15:38] seeking,

[1:15:40] ignoring the goodness of suffering and

[1:15:44] ignoring the law of medit moderation.

[1:15:48] And um,

[1:15:50] it doesn't know how to use the eyes of

[1:15:52] interbeing.

[1:15:54] And it doesn't uh and it sees in terms

[1:15:56] of permanence. It it struggles with

[1:15:59] impermanence.

[1:16:01] So it has an image of reality which is

[1:16:06] conditioned

[1:16:07] by this idea of self, this very

[1:16:10] instinctive unconscious idea of self.

[1:16:14] Um,

[1:16:19] so if you find yourself thinking in

[1:16:22] terms of permanence,

[1:16:26] in terms of duality,

[1:16:29] right, or in terms of self, then it's

[1:16:33] it's very nice because you can kind of

[1:16:34] go, oh, that's automatically wrong.

[1:16:38] So it kind of like that's I think Sister

[1:16:40] Langim was really helping us with that

[1:16:42] on the very first day. It's a very quick

[1:16:45] way to identify unhelpful thinking. So

[1:16:49] again, they're just signposts, but they

[1:16:51] are signposts that can help us discard

[1:16:55] certain paths of investigation or

[1:16:58] questions very quickly. We don't have to

[1:17:00] waste our time.

[1:17:03] And um

[1:17:05] we're going to get to imagination, I

[1:17:08] promised, and visualization.

[1:17:11] And this is this is very interesting

[1:17:13] because Manass needs us to use

[1:17:17] imagination and visualization to help it

[1:17:19] let go of this cutting and

[1:17:23] discriminating and seeing things in

[1:17:24] terms of self.

[1:17:27] So these are the three modes. And then

[1:17:29] there are three realms. And here now

[1:17:31] we're really going to get in trouble

[1:17:33] because when I say three realms of

[1:17:35] perception, it really sounds like

[1:17:37] metaphysics.

[1:17:38] It really sounds like like realm like as

[1:17:41] in nature of reality, but it is a realm

[1:17:44] of perception.

[1:17:48] So there are we perceive in these three

[1:17:51] in terms of three realms.

[1:18:05] And the first is suchness.

[1:18:10] So again, Tai here was borrowing from

[1:18:12] western philosophy and from from Kant.

[1:18:15] This is the the thing in itself. That's

[1:18:23] the thing in itself. And that means

[1:18:26] somehow there is a

[1:18:28] there is a somethingness there is an

[1:18:31] essence of things which is not their

[1:18:33] appearance.

[1:18:35] Right? Uh water

[1:18:39] this is just a metaphor. Okay? Be

[1:18:41] careful with this one too. Water can

[1:18:43] appear as a snowflake

[1:18:46] or as a hailstone

[1:18:48] or as a raindrop or as mist.

[1:18:54] Different faces, different appearances,

[1:18:58] different names. The substance is the

[1:19:01] same

[1:19:05] just a metaphor

[1:19:09] but maybe useful. So um

[1:19:15] in the realm of suchness uh when we

[1:19:17] perceive in the mode of suchness there

[1:19:19] is no duration,

[1:19:22] no time and no space.

[1:19:27] This is tricky because we usually see in

[1:19:30] terms of time and space. And what we

[1:19:34] learn from the tradition is that it is

[1:19:36] the mind that paints time and space onto

[1:19:42] uh this kind of point instant perception

[1:19:49] and it happens so quickly that we don't

[1:19:51] notice the point instant direct

[1:19:54] perception.

[1:19:56] So um

[1:20:01] remember the the the sense consciousness

[1:20:03] is operating with store directly without

[1:20:06] the intervention of mind. They work in

[1:20:08] this mode of direct perception and what

[1:20:11] and in the mode of direct perception

[1:20:12] what they perceive is suchness.

[1:20:17] But then mind intervenes very quickly

[1:20:20] and adds

[1:20:23] our assumptions of space and time.

[1:20:28] And so we we the mode of

[1:20:32] direct perception in the realm of

[1:20:34] suchness is mostly very brief. And we

[1:20:37] need to train our mind because the mind

[1:20:40] can operate in the direct mode and can

[1:20:42] perceive suchness as well. But it takes

[1:20:45] a lot of training.

[1:20:49] Takes training not to paint space and

[1:20:52] time.

[1:20:55] And um

[1:20:58] but maybe some of quantum physics is

[1:21:01] sort of pointing in this direction as

[1:21:04] well.

[1:21:06] um that there there appear to be

[1:21:09] phenomena which are somewhat non

[1:21:13] non-local such as entanglement and maybe

[1:21:16] even non-temporal

[1:21:19] um quantum erasers and all kind there's

[1:21:23] all kinds of things where time no longer

[1:21:24] seems to apply in the usual sense that

[1:21:28] events in the future seem to be able to

[1:21:30] condition events in the present or in

[1:21:32] the past

[1:21:34] and it's seemingly very confusing if we

[1:21:37] believe rigidly in time and space. If we

[1:21:41] can suspend those beliefs,

[1:21:44] well, you know, the maths tells us some

[1:21:46] interesting things.

[1:21:49] Um, but even that quantum physics is

[1:21:51] just a model. So, we shouldn't get

[1:21:53] attached to that either.

[1:21:57] Uh, where are we? The realms. Yes,

[1:21:59] suchness. Then we have the realm of

[1:22:02] representations. So I have to go a

[1:22:04] little bit quickly because

[1:22:06] um there's a lot of this stuff

[1:22:11] representations.

[1:22:19] So um

[1:22:22] this is mostly where we where we hang

[1:22:24] out.

[1:22:26] Um and it's maybe the realm of

[1:22:28] predictive coding. We heard from from

[1:22:30] Mark the other day about predictive

[1:22:32] processing.

[1:22:34] Um that the mind

[1:22:37] sees in terms of what it already knows.

[1:22:39] It makes predictions based on past

[1:22:41] experiences as a way to optimize and to

[1:22:46] reduce

[1:22:49] glucose expenditure basically.

[1:22:53] So it's cheaper for the mind to give you

[1:22:56] the apple of experience than to actually

[1:22:59] check and experience this apple of the

[1:23:02] present moment.

[1:23:05] And but the result of that is there's it

[1:23:07] comes at a cost because the apple of

[1:23:09] experience is kind of washed out. It's

[1:23:11] kind of gray. It's kind of I already

[1:23:13] know. It's the apple I already know.

[1:23:15] It's boring.

[1:23:17] Whereas the apple of this moment is

[1:23:19] totally unknown.

[1:23:21] is the mystery. So if we only perceive

[1:23:24] in the mode of mental constructions and

[1:23:27] representations

[1:23:28] in the realm well the mode of inference

[1:23:32] and fallacy which gives access to the

[1:23:36] realm of representations

[1:23:38] then we only have it's like a hall of

[1:23:40] mirrors.

[1:23:43] It's the matrix. We're living in the

[1:23:44] matrix and we'd like to exit the matrix.

[1:23:49] Maybe

[1:23:51] some people like to stay.

[1:23:56] Um, so we have our ideas about the

[1:24:00] nature of reality and then we experience

[1:24:03] reality in terms of those ideas. So you

[1:24:06] might have noticed

[1:24:09] uh that if you love somebody, you might

[1:24:12] have an idea about them

[1:24:15] and you might be very attached to that

[1:24:17] idea. You have an or you build an image

[1:24:19] of them and you fall in love with the

[1:24:22] image, right? Maybe love at first sight

[1:24:25] and it all seems good and then you live

[1:24:27] with them,

[1:24:29] right? And then after a while, like hang

[1:24:31] on,

[1:24:34] that's not what I signed up for. Where's

[1:24:37] that perfect image that I constructed?

[1:24:38] You fell in love with an image,

[1:24:41] but we want to fall in love with

[1:24:42] reality.

[1:24:46] So, we need to be very careful of

[1:24:48] superimposing

[1:24:49] the realm of representations on our

[1:24:51] experience or or you know, dwelling in

[1:24:53] the realm of representations.

[1:24:55] And it's hard because so much of our

[1:24:57] collective kind of consensus reality is

[1:24:59] built out of these mental constructions

[1:25:01] representations and particularly

[1:25:02] language right and we use language a

[1:25:06] lot. We have names

[1:25:09] and sometimes we get identified with our

[1:25:11] name

[1:25:12] and then we have identity and we get

[1:25:15] identified with our identity. I am a

[1:25:19] scientist

[1:25:21] right?

[1:25:24] I am from this country, from this town.

[1:25:29] I support this football team.

[1:25:32] Identity

[1:25:34] a little bit dangerous. And and we start

[1:25:37] to perceive the world in those terms. We

[1:25:40] may also have ideas and theories about

[1:25:42] uh the nature of reality like the nature

[1:25:44] of elementary particles, atoms,

[1:25:48] electrons.

[1:25:49] They're ideas. And then you look at

[1:25:52] reality through the lens of those ideas.

[1:26:00] And maybe you only find confirmation of

[1:26:03] those ideas,

[1:26:05] right? But you what you start to see is

[1:26:07] the ideas, not the reality because you

[1:26:11] don't know that the lenses have got into

[1:26:14] your way of perceiving.

[1:26:18] Um, so we see it's not that it's totally

[1:26:22] wrong, right? But we only see an aspect

[1:26:25] of reality, not the whole of reality.

[1:26:27] And I think as good scientists, we're

[1:26:29] probably interested in seeing reality.

[1:26:33] We have a third realm, which is the

[1:26:35] realm of mere images.

[1:26:45] And this is um

[1:26:47] also uh imagination

[1:26:50] dreams.

[1:26:52] So experiences that we've had that fall

[1:26:55] into store as a seed.

[1:26:58] Uh let's say you went to the zoo and you

[1:27:00] saw an elephant, right? And in the night

[1:27:04] you dream of an elephant.

[1:27:08] So in the night,

[1:27:10] Manas goes goes wandering around and

[1:27:14] goes for a visit into store and it's

[1:27:16] like self-service. It's like

[1:27:19] it selects

[1:27:21] the image of an elephant, presents it to

[1:27:24] you and you see an elephant but it's a

[1:27:27] mere image. It's not an elephant.

[1:27:30] It's the image of an elephant.

[1:27:34] And uh we may also be perceiving reality

[1:27:37] in terms of mere images sometimes and

[1:27:40] also not necessarily bad like dreams and

[1:27:43] imagination are wonderful and important

[1:27:46] if both for scientists and artists.

[1:27:50] We need our imagination and we're going

[1:27:51] to get to it.

[1:27:54] Um

[1:27:56] okay, we could spend a lot more time.

[1:27:58] There's a lot more to say here, but

[1:27:59] let's just move on. There are also

[1:28:02] three.

[1:28:04] I think I need a bit more space.

[1:28:22] Three moral natures.

[1:28:27] I know you might react because I said

[1:28:29] moral.

[1:28:32] Just, you know, just notice it. Breathe.

[1:28:36] It'll be okay.

[1:28:41] So, these are wholesome

[1:28:46] and yes, you guessed it, unh wholesome

[1:28:53] and indeterminate.

[1:29:02] So um it's not moral as in absolutely

[1:29:06] good or bad right that in in according

[1:29:08] to this teaching there is nothing

[1:29:10] absolutely good or bad it is our mind

[1:29:12] that makes it so it is our mind that

[1:29:15] makes it either helpful or unhelpful

[1:29:18] wholesome or unh wholesome.

[1:29:25] So let's see um if we can sort of tie

[1:29:28] some of this together.

[1:29:31] We have the five or eight

[1:29:36] sense consciousnesses.

[1:29:39] We have the mind consciousness the sixth

[1:29:43] manas

[1:29:45] seventh

[1:29:47] and we have store

[1:29:50] the eighth.

[1:29:52] So let's start

[1:29:54] with store consciousness.

[1:29:56] Store consciousness

[1:29:59] in a sense is seen as um

[1:30:06] it's seen as as nature. So again be

[1:30:08] careful because this really starts to

[1:30:10] sound like metaphysics.

[1:30:12] It is uh

[1:30:18] it's very hard to say this in any way

[1:30:19] that doesn't sound like metaphysics.

[1:30:21] just just take it and be careful. Um

[1:30:25] it's it's the field

[1:30:28] of all potentials.

[1:30:32] It is not manifest. It is not accessible

[1:30:35] to mind consciousness. It is not

[1:30:37] something that we can perceive directly.

[1:30:39] Except maybe we can but um usually not.

[1:30:45] I'm sorry. I know I'm not making it easy

[1:30:48] but it isn't easy. But anyway, so its

[1:30:50] mode of operation is is sort of

[1:30:52] spontaneous.

[1:30:54] Uh it just does things and in that sense

[1:30:56] it is morally indeterminate. It's not

[1:30:59] good or bad. It's just operating

[1:31:01] spontaneously. It is the field of all

[1:31:03] nature

[1:31:05] and but it is also unveiled. It sees

[1:31:09] things as they are. It is completely

[1:31:12] unobstructed by conceptual categories or

[1:31:16] mentation, imagination, speculation,

[1:31:18] inference, deduction or any of those

[1:31:20] things. It just operates

[1:31:23] and it's um

[1:31:27] so it's its mode of operation or it its

[1:31:30] moral nature is indeterminate.

[1:31:34] Okay, not good, not bad.

[1:31:38] uh what it its mode of

[1:31:41] of perception is direct

[1:31:48] and the field

[1:31:52] of of perception or the realm of

[1:31:55] perception is suchness. So in the mode

[1:31:58] of direct perception,

[1:32:01] it experiences

[1:32:04] things exactly as they are and it is

[1:32:07] morally indeterminate

[1:32:11] and it is uh

[1:32:14] uh indeterminate unveiled. No delusion,

[1:32:17] no discrimination. Then we have the

[1:32:19] seventh manas which we know is in a

[1:32:22] sense it's part of store. It's arisen

[1:32:24] from store but it has it's it's come

[1:32:27] it's born from seeds of delusion in

[1:32:29] store seeds of the belief in a separate

[1:32:31] self and based on that belief it reaches

[1:32:34] down into store and identifies and holds

[1:32:38] on to a part of store. It's also called

[1:32:40] the lover. It reaches down says I love

[1:32:42] you

[1:32:44] and what does it love? It loves itself

[1:32:48] and it says this is me.

[1:32:51] But its moral nature is also

[1:32:54] indeterminate,

[1:32:58] right? It's not good or bad. It's just

[1:33:00] spontaneously doing its thing. That's

[1:33:03] just how it operates. It's not right or

[1:33:04] wrong. It's just how it is. It's

[1:33:07] indeterminate, but it's veiled.

[1:33:12] Veiled by the belief in a separate self.

[1:33:16] And this is indeterminate unveiled.

[1:33:19] Okay, that's the eighth. The seventh is

[1:33:21] indeterminate morally but veiled. So it

[1:33:24] has some delusion in it

[1:33:28] and all it has access to

[1:33:32] in terms of the mode of perception is

[1:33:34] fallacy. It seems it sees everything in

[1:33:36] terms of fallacy

[1:33:39] and as a result it only has access

[1:33:43] to the realm of representations.

[1:33:46] Okay? Because of the delusion of self,

[1:33:49] it sees in terms of self which is not

[1:33:51] the true nature of things. Only sees

[1:33:53] that.

[1:33:57] Then we have then it gets more

[1:34:00] interesting. We have let's go to the

[1:34:01] fifth the five or eight sense

[1:34:03] consciousnesses.

[1:34:06] They can operate either with or without

[1:34:09] mind. when they operate

[1:34:12] without mind

[1:34:14] they are in the mode of direct

[1:34:17] perception but it's not exactly the same

[1:34:20] as the direct perception of

[1:34:24] the direct perception of the sense

[1:34:26] consciousness is I would say is in the

[1:34:28] is is um

[1:34:31] direct but uh in the in the realm of

[1:34:34] phenomena

[1:34:36] so it's direct phenomenal which means

[1:34:40] point instant.

[1:34:43] Um

[1:34:49] yes. So it it it still sees in terms of

[1:34:54] things but without

[1:34:57] um mental confabulation.

[1:35:00] Okay. So it's direct but in in the realm

[1:35:03] of phenomena. So maybe in the historical

[1:35:06] dimension and the senses operate like

[1:35:09] this without the intervention of mind

[1:35:12] and as as such. Yeah. So they they they

[1:35:14] have access because their mode of

[1:35:16] perception is direct when mind is not

[1:35:18] involved.

[1:35:19] So what they have access to is suchness

[1:35:21] but it is the phenomenal suchness.

[1:35:24] So

[1:35:26] the suchness of phenomena,

[1:35:32] right? And and store consciousness also

[1:35:35] has access to the realm of suchness, but

[1:35:37] it is both phenomenal and it can touch

[1:35:39] the phenomenal suchness and the numinal.

[1:35:47] Phenomenal and numinal.

[1:35:52] Okay. If any of this is not clear, you

[1:35:55] have to uh wait about 18 months and you

[1:35:58] can read the book.

[1:36:01] Um and and just to be clear, I didn't

[1:36:03] make any of this up. I got this straight

[1:36:05] from Tai, including this diagram. Okay?

[1:36:08] So there's a So it might be better. You

[1:36:10] can also watch the video of Tai doing

[1:36:12] the same thing and he'll do it a lot

[1:36:13] better.

[1:36:15] Um so

[1:36:18] the thing about the five sense

[1:36:20] consciousness is although their mode of

[1:36:21] perception can be direct when mind is

[1:36:22] not involved and so they have access to

[1:36:24] phenomenal suchness

[1:36:27] their moral nature can be wholesome unh

[1:36:29] wholesome or indeterminate.

[1:36:43] So what does that mean? Um

[1:36:46] when they operate without the

[1:36:48] intervention of mind consciousness, it

[1:36:49] is indeterminate. They are it's just

[1:36:52] what it is. With mind consciousness,

[1:36:55] basically um it kind of depends what

[1:36:59] you're looking at, right? Whether it's

[1:37:01] wholesome or unh wholesome and what you

[1:37:03] make of it with your mind.

[1:37:07] So, um, it's not only what you're

[1:37:11] looking at, but the way of looking at it

[1:37:14] and what you think about it and whether

[1:37:15] you get addicted to it or attached to

[1:37:17] it, whether you hate it, whether you

[1:37:18] love it, what your mind, what stories

[1:37:22] your mind makes up about it. And it can

[1:37:24] either be and wholesome wholesome and

[1:37:26] wholesome unh wholesome is not also

[1:37:29] moral is a bit misleading because it

[1:37:30] sounds like it's some kind of absolute

[1:37:32] like there are good things and there are

[1:37:34] bad things. That's not really the lens.

[1:37:36] The lens here is is it helpful or

[1:37:38] unhelpful.

[1:37:40] So this question of the mind operating

[1:37:44] with the five sense consciousnesses in

[1:37:46] is in a sense dealt with in the five

[1:37:48] mindfulness trainings and particularly

[1:37:50] the fifth mindfulness training which

[1:37:52] some of you received this morning which

[1:37:54] is about what we choose to consume

[1:37:57] whether it is helpful or unhelpful

[1:38:00] beneficial or unbeneficial.

[1:38:03] Then we have mind the sixth

[1:38:06] consciousness and the realm the of

[1:38:09] activity of the sixth is is the largest

[1:38:12] because it can operate in the mode of

[1:38:15] direct perception although it is rare

[1:38:18] and it takes training.

[1:38:21] It can operate in the mode of inference

[1:38:24] and deduction which is what we usually

[1:38:27] do. It can also operate in the mode of

[1:38:30] fallacy. wrong inference or wrong

[1:38:33] intuition.

[1:38:35] Um, and it does have access to suchness,

[1:38:40] although it is also somewhat rare. It

[1:38:44] has access obviously to the realm of

[1:38:46] representations because that's usually

[1:38:47] where it hangs out. And it has access to

[1:38:50] the realm of m images. We can imagine

[1:38:53] things and visualize things. And that's

[1:38:55] very cool.

[1:38:57] And it also

[1:39:00] can be wholesome,

[1:39:04] unh wholesome

[1:39:06] or indeterminate. So it's it's its realm

[1:39:10] of activity is the greatest. It has

[1:39:12] access to everything.

[1:39:15] But mostly we use it in the mode of

[1:39:18] inference, in the realm of

[1:39:20] representation

[1:39:22] and well wholesome, unh wholesome, I

[1:39:25] don't know. That's up to you.

[1:39:29] So,

[1:39:32] does that help?

[1:39:34] I don't know. Maybe it does, maybe it

[1:39:36] doesn't. Maybe it just makes it worse,

[1:39:39] right? Could just confuse you.

[1:39:42] So, um

[1:39:52] let's enjoy sound of the bell.

[1:40:11] [Music]

[1:40:31] So, we have to treat all of this with a

[1:40:34] little bit of care because as I've said

[1:40:36] before and I will keep on saying it, it

[1:40:38] does start to look a little bit like a

[1:40:41] description of the nature of reality.

[1:40:42] But remember, it is only intended as a

[1:40:44] map to help us navigate the problem of

[1:40:48] suffering in our experience as it

[1:40:51] arises. So it can maybe sometimes help

[1:40:54] us to know where we are and what we're

[1:40:56] up to and what's operating and maybe how

[1:40:59] to practice to move from one way of

[1:41:03] perceiving to another way of perceiving.

[1:41:07] Um

[1:41:15] there's so much more we could say

[1:41:20] but in the uh let's just talk about

[1:41:22] imagination.

[1:41:30] So Tai Tai said something very

[1:41:31] interesting which is that we need

[1:41:34] we need our imagination and we need our

[1:41:38] visualization

[1:41:42] um to help manas the seventh

[1:41:45] consciousness to to let go to help it

[1:41:48] start to make this trip into the

[1:41:54] uh to to to help it to let go of seeing

[1:41:56] things in terms of separateness seeing

[1:41:57] things in terms of self.

[1:42:03] So what can we do?

[1:42:08] It's interesting because in theory like

[1:42:11] imagination is in the realm of mere

[1:42:12] images. It's supposed to be sort of not

[1:42:15] real, right? But that's actually a habit

[1:42:18] of thought that arises on the basis of

[1:42:21] scientific materialism.

[1:42:24] Okay? Because we have a tendency to

[1:42:26] think that this is real, right? Reality

[1:42:31] is matter. It is external. It is, you

[1:42:34] know,

[1:42:35] physical and temporal.

[1:42:38] But that's just an assumption.

[1:42:41] In the realm of experience, why is an

[1:42:44] image not real?

[1:42:48] It's your experience. It's in the

[1:42:50] present moment. It's part of experience.

[1:42:55] So it isn't not real.

[1:42:58] That's just a a habit. It's a hangover

[1:43:01] of uh scientific materialism.

[1:43:05] So um

[1:43:07] this is what confused me when I asked

[1:43:09] Tai the question about if you've never

[1:43:11] seen an orange tree, can you you look at

[1:43:14] an orange, can you see the tree?

[1:43:17] And then Tai said, "Keep practicing."

[1:43:23] So

[1:43:24] I asked the question unconsciously

[1:43:28] in terms of scientific materialism

[1:43:30] because I thought there is an orange

[1:43:33] now. It came from a tree then somewhere

[1:43:35] which I may or may not have seen but it

[1:43:37] is separately existent

[1:43:40] right

[1:43:41] and not accessible to my mind unless I'm

[1:43:45] looking straight at it.

[1:43:48] Are you sure?

[1:43:52] Right. If if it's something more like

[1:43:55] store consciousness

[1:43:57] where everything is the arising of the

[1:44:01] manifesting of seeds from the ground of

[1:44:06] store manifesting simultaneously in

[1:44:09] terms of subject and object of

[1:44:11] perception,

[1:44:13] right? Then those seeds at the level of

[1:44:15] store are not in space. And they're not

[1:44:20] in time. They're not subject to birth or

[1:44:23] death, creation or destruction.

[1:44:27] It is always there potential.

[1:44:32] So what if mind could just reach

[1:44:34] directly into store

[1:44:40] with imagination?

[1:44:42] Sometimes we appear to be there is there

[1:44:44] are two kinds of uh um mere image. One

[1:44:48] is with substance and one is without

[1:44:50] substance. This is in the teaching. So

[1:44:52] with substance is based on a thing that

[1:44:55] we have seen and experienced in waking

[1:44:58] normal waking consciousness. And without

[1:45:00] substance is seems to be a kind of

[1:45:02] creation of the mind. So let's say you

[1:45:05] see in your dream a flying elephant.

[1:45:08] You've combined two images and you've

[1:45:10] made a new image. And of obviously a lot

[1:45:12] of art and literature is

[1:45:15] is wonderful and beautiful because we

[1:45:17] can seemingly create

[1:45:20] new things with our imagination. I also

[1:45:24] want to say the English language is a

[1:45:26] little bit um unhelpful in this realm

[1:45:28] because it gives us only visualization

[1:45:31] because we are a little bit obsessed

[1:45:34] with seeing

[1:45:36] and we don't have a word for the same

[1:45:39] thing but with hearing. So I I call it

[1:45:42] aization

[1:45:44] and this is what composers do. You hear

[1:45:46] things

[1:45:49] in this realm.

[1:45:52] But if you're a dancer, maybe you have a

[1:45:56] kinesthetization,

[1:45:58] right? Or proprioceptization

[1:46:01] in motion.

[1:46:03] It's also a kind of imagination, but

[1:46:05] it's not an image. It's a maybe a felt

[1:46:06] sense. Then you can imagine the felt

[1:46:08] sense of moving through that sequence.

[1:46:13] Right? If you're a chef, you have

[1:46:16] gustatorization.

[1:46:18] You could probably find a better word,

[1:46:20] but it's like uh you can you can imagine

[1:46:24] before you've made it like a new

[1:46:26] combination of ingredients.

[1:46:30] If you're a perfume, you can do it with

[1:46:33] with smells. Or if you're if you work

[1:46:35] with essential oils, you can imagine new

[1:46:37] combinations of essential oils. You can

[1:46:40] smell them before you've smelled them.

[1:46:41] It's kind of wild.

[1:46:45] al factorization,

[1:46:47] right? So maybe we need some new words.

[1:46:51] Um,

[1:46:57] obviously artists make use of

[1:46:59] imagination a lot, but I think

[1:47:00] scientists do too, right? Because

[1:47:02] there's many many things that we study

[1:47:04] in science that we can't see directly.

[1:47:07] If you're if you're studying um particle

[1:47:10] physics,

[1:47:12] most of what you study you can never see

[1:47:14] or touch, right? But you use imagination

[1:47:17] to visualize it

[1:47:19] and then imagine the interactions

[1:47:23] and and that is wonderful and necessary.

[1:47:27] Um

[1:47:29] in the practice as a yogi or as a

[1:47:31] meditator, we also make use of

[1:47:34] visualization. We do it a lot.

[1:47:38] And maybe we are learning to

[1:47:42] communicate more directly with this

[1:47:45] ocean of potential.

[1:47:50] So let's say we're going to go for

[1:47:52] walking meditation.

[1:47:55] You can visualize and you can walk with

[1:47:58] your mother's feet.

[1:48:01] You can say

[1:48:06] And yeah, it's a little bit of

[1:48:08] visualization,

[1:48:10] but it becomes very real.

[1:48:14] So we use our visualization, our

[1:48:16] imagination to shatter the illusion of

[1:48:20] our separateness.

[1:48:23] You can invite your mother,

[1:48:26] your father,

[1:48:29] all your ancestors,

[1:48:31] your teachers.

[1:48:35] You walk as a multitude.

[1:48:38] This is something you can experience. So

[1:48:39] it's yes a little bit imagination but

[1:48:42] you start to practice it becomes very

[1:48:45] real. something you can feel

[1:48:50] and it helps manas to let go

[1:48:56] and there's many many many such

[1:48:59] practices

[1:49:02] um in the uh Mahayana Buddhist

[1:49:05] literature there are some sutras that go

[1:49:08] very far into this the avatam saka sutra

[1:49:10] the Lotus sutra they are really trippy

[1:49:14] you know It's like you sit on the

[1:49:18] lotus flower of a thousand petals and in

[1:49:21] each petal there's another flower of a

[1:49:23] thousand petals and in each petal of the

[1:49:25] thousand petals there's another you know

[1:49:26] it's like you know fractal madness.

[1:49:35] So it's partly visualization but it's

[1:49:37] visualization which gives us access

[1:49:39] gives us freedom from the apparent

[1:49:42] uh solidity and separateness of things

[1:49:47] that that manas perceives in terms of.

[1:49:54] So I had trouble when I first

[1:49:55] encountered this business of seeds and

[1:49:57] store because I immediately and I think

[1:49:58] I said this the other day I went about

[1:50:00] trying to locate it saying okay fine so

[1:50:02] if you're saying that's the ultimate

[1:50:04] nature of reality then where is it how

[1:50:06] can I touch it can we measure it

[1:50:10] wrong questions

[1:50:16] so maybe a better thought is like how

[1:50:18] can I how can I leave it alone how can I

[1:50:21] not grasp it with my concepts

[1:50:24] It makes us as teachers a little bit

[1:50:26] hesitant to say anything about it

[1:50:28] because whatever we say we know is not

[1:50:30] it.

[1:50:32] Nevertheless, I'm going to say something

[1:50:35] and maybe it's helpful, maybe it's not.

[1:50:37] So I'm I'm a musician

[1:50:39] and I sometimes like to think in terms

[1:50:41] of music. So, I could take a piece of

[1:50:45] music that I love, let's say, you know,

[1:50:47] a Mozart string quintet, and you could

[1:50:49] choose a song that you like or, you

[1:50:51] know, something that means something to

[1:50:52] you. And you ask yourself, um, so let's

[1:50:57] take this or maybe something more

[1:50:59] universal like, I don't know, uh,

[1:51:01] Beethoven's fifth symphony. Does

[1:51:03] everybody know that? D

[1:51:12] and so on. Right? You know that one.

[1:51:15] Um,

[1:51:18] between performances,

[1:51:20] where is it?

[1:51:24] Okay, so the Berlin Filarmonic just

[1:51:26] played it. Vienna Filmonic is going to

[1:51:28] play it next week. Where is it now?

[1:51:33] Does it exist?

[1:51:35] Does it not exist?

[1:51:38] Collective consciousness.

[1:51:40] Is it in collective consciousness?

[1:51:42] Partly

[1:51:47] before wrote it.

[1:51:51] Where was it?

[1:51:56] Did it exist?

[1:51:59] Did it not exist?

[1:52:01] Right?

[1:52:04] Maybe the terms of the question are

[1:52:06] misleading

[1:52:08] because we tend to think in terms of

[1:52:09] existence or non-existence.

[1:52:14] But let's just suppose that

[1:52:18] for the sake of argument there was a big

[1:52:21] bang.

[1:52:23] I don't know if there was or not, right?

[1:52:26] And I think astrophysicists are actually

[1:52:28] increasingly unsure.

[1:52:31] There was a time when that was the

[1:52:32] consensus. You know, still somewhat the

[1:52:35] consensus, but there are some competing

[1:52:37] theories, competing interpretations of

[1:52:40] the observations. It's not necessarily

[1:52:42] clear, but let's suppose that there was

[1:52:45] there's a big bang which implies space,

[1:52:48] time, and I would say consciousness. Not

[1:52:51] everybody would agree, but let's say you

[1:52:53] have space, time, and consciousness.

[1:52:56] So, you forget about the big bang.

[1:52:57] Doesn't matter.

[1:52:59] Once you have space, time and

[1:53:01] consciousness, all kinds of things are

[1:53:03] possible,

[1:53:05] right? Including the note B flat,

[1:53:09] right? The note B flat is suddenly a

[1:53:12] possible vibration of space,

[1:53:16] right? The note B flat including all its

[1:53:19] harmonics. B flat an octave above, two

[1:53:21] octaves above, three octaves above, an

[1:53:23] octave and a fifth, right? an octave and

[1:53:25] a two octaves and a third and a fifth

[1:53:27] and a minor 7th and so on. Right? All

[1:53:29] the harmonics are possible vibrations of

[1:53:32] a of a of a space

[1:53:36] of air or matter or string or whatever

[1:53:40] it might be.

[1:53:42] Once once you have space, time and

[1:53:44] consciousness, that frequency is

[1:53:47] possible. Double that frequency is

[1:53:49] possible, triple that frequency as

[1:53:51] possible. They're all possible.

[1:53:53] So by extension Beethoven's fifth

[1:53:56] symphony is possible

[1:53:59] right once you have spacetime and

[1:54:00] conscious it's possible it's possible to

[1:54:02] assemble those frequencies in that order

[1:54:06] in with those harmonies

[1:54:09] with those tambas

[1:54:11] it is possible.

[1:54:14] So what if there is a space of all the

[1:54:17] possible possibles,

[1:54:21] right? Including pieces of music,

[1:54:22] including human beings, including

[1:54:24] feelings, including mountains and

[1:54:26] galaxies and dew drops. All the possible

[1:54:29] possibles are possible,

[1:54:33] right? Some of them are manifest.

[1:54:36] They're all possible.

[1:54:39] and as possible possibles.

[1:54:44] Let's come back to Beethoven's fifth

[1:54:46] between the two performances between

[1:54:48] Berlin Phil and Vienna.

[1:54:52] Where is it?

[1:54:54] Nobody's playing it. Maybe nobody even

[1:54:57] playing a recording. That's probably

[1:54:59] quite unusual these days, but say all

[1:55:02] the CD players, all the,

[1:55:04] you know, suddenly maybe Spotify deletes

[1:55:08] it accidentally,

[1:55:11] goes off all the playlist, nobody's

[1:55:12] playing it, nobody's listening to it.

[1:55:14] Where is it?

[1:55:18] Did it disappear? Did it go away? No,

[1:55:21] it's still possible.

[1:55:23] It's just not manifest, but it's

[1:55:24] possible. It didn't die. Didn't go away.

[1:55:28] Because the possible, the potential

[1:55:32] cannot be destroyed. Nobody can touch

[1:55:35] it.

[1:55:37] Ty used to use the example of a flame.

[1:55:39] He would light a match and then the

[1:55:41] match would go out.

[1:55:44] But when the flame is extinguished, are

[1:55:48] flames no longer possible?

[1:55:50] Is that the end of all flames? No.

[1:55:52] They're still possible. They're just not

[1:55:55] manifest.

[1:55:58] Right? But if you're a chemist, you know

[1:56:00] very well that a flame is just a kind of

[1:56:04] dynamical system, right? Of some kind of

[1:56:08] fuel

[1:56:09] with oxygen combusting in an exothermic

[1:56:13] reaction.

[1:56:15] The kind of dynamic

[1:56:17] exothermic reaction that draws in

[1:56:21] the oxygen it needs to to continue.

[1:56:24] It's it's a dynamical system and as a

[1:56:26] dynamical system it is always possible.

[1:56:30] So in the realm of the possible nothing

[1:56:33] is created nothing is destroyed.

[1:56:40] There is no time,

[1:56:43] no locality,

[1:56:46] no coming or going.

[1:56:50] No same, no different.

[1:56:53] Just all the possible possible possibles

[1:56:57] all simultaneously

[1:56:59] sort of vibrating. Maybe it's a realm of

[1:57:03] frequency.

[1:57:07] A field. We like to think about fields.

[1:57:10] Usually we think of physical fields. So

[1:57:12] fields instantiated in space and time.

[1:57:15] So like an electromagnetic field or a

[1:57:20] field of charge or a field of magnetic

[1:57:24] charge.

[1:57:26] And then we have quantum fields which

[1:57:27] are not physical fields, right? They're

[1:57:29] fields of probability which may be a

[1:57:31] little bit closer.

[1:57:36] This is a field of all the fields,

[1:57:40] not in space, not in time.

[1:57:43] It really sounds like metaphysics. This

[1:57:46] is why I

[1:57:47] should keep my mouth shut.

[1:57:50] So, I just say it uh in the hope that it

[1:57:54] might point in the direction

[1:57:58] of a of a kind of experience of freedom

[1:58:01] of non-fear

[1:58:04] because you and I are like Beethoven's

[1:58:08] fifth symphony.

[1:58:10] As soon as there was spaceime and

[1:58:11] consciousness, we were also possible and

[1:58:13] we were always possible. We will always

[1:58:15] be possible

[1:58:20] and there is no separate we right so

[1:58:23] possible also in all our multiple

[1:58:27] interactions

[1:58:28] because maybe it's in the interactions

[1:58:30] that are more the space of the possible

[1:58:33] than the apparent separate entities

[1:58:35] which Manis invents.

[1:58:41] So you can even think of the possible as

[1:58:42] being in the in what lies between us,

[1:58:46] the realm of relationships.

[1:58:49] And what is Beethoven's fifth symphony

[1:58:51] if not a complex of relationships of

[1:58:54] sound.

[1:58:58] It's not really an entity. It's not a

[1:59:00] thing. It's also a relationship of your

[1:59:02] consciousness to it.

[1:59:06] Without the listener, there's no

[1:59:08] symphony.

[1:59:12] So I just propose this

[1:59:15] as a as a an instrument of imagination.

[1:59:19] Okay? I'm not describing reality.

[1:59:23] I'm just saying we can use our

[1:59:25] imagination

[1:59:27] to kind of visualize this vast space.

[1:59:30] Sometimes it one point I I visualized it

[1:59:34] as a giant it's like a giant cathedral

[1:59:37] with all these tuning forks hanging

[1:59:42] all possible frequencies

[1:59:45] and life is a kind of dance

[1:59:49] brushing against all these different

[1:59:51] tuning forks and they resonate and they

[1:59:52] cause each other to resonate and the

[1:59:54] patterns of resonance ripple out and

[1:59:56] interact. And there's other

[2:00:00] resonances and dances happening at the

[2:00:02] same time. And they all and it's this

[2:00:04] vast music of us

[2:00:10] not subject to birth and death always

[2:00:13] possible.

[2:00:24] I wrote something down here. I have no

[2:00:26] idea what it says.

[2:00:27] Okay, that's a sign

[2:00:32] enough.

[2:00:38] So, let's not take any of this too

[2:00:40] seriously. Let's not hold on to it too

[2:00:43] tight. Let's not make more theories out

[2:00:46] of it. Even though we love making

[2:00:48] theories

[2:00:49] and any theories we appear to have, you

[2:00:52] can just also let those go too.

[2:00:56] And I invite you to see what you can

[2:00:58] experience.

[2:01:00] How maybe you can use some of these

[2:01:02] notions to also challenge the categories

[2:01:05] of experience that appear to you in the

[2:01:09] mind and the questions that arise based

[2:01:11] on those

[2:01:13] categories. As soon as you think, oh, I

[2:01:15] need to ask brother Fablin a question.

[2:01:18] Check.

[2:01:20] Right? Are you thinking in terms of

[2:01:22] self?

[2:01:24] Are you thinking in terms of permanence?

[2:01:28] Right? Are you thinking in terms of

[2:01:29] separateness? Are you thinking in terms

[2:01:31] of dualism?

[2:01:34] You do a quick check and like, oh yeah,

[2:01:35] okay, I don't need to ask.

[2:01:40] We'll save a lot of time.

[2:01:47] Let's enjoy three sounds of the bell.

[2:02:04] [Music]

[2:02:15] [Music]

[2:02:40] [Music]

[2:03:07] [Music]

Thich Nhat Hanh
AuthorThich Nhat Hanh

Vietnamese Zen master, poet, and peace activist. Founded Plum Village in France and was central to the engaged Buddhism movement. His teachings on mindfulness, interbeing, and walk…

View profileWebsite
Explore Topics
Yogacara-buddhismConsciousness-modelsDirect-perceptionStore-consciousnessEgo-mind

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Store Consciousness (Alaya-Vijnana) is not a physical place but a process where all karmic imprints, habits, and identity-patterns are stored and continuously broadcast to other layers of mind. It operates without the sense of 'I am' and is accessible in deep meditative states, but its contents influence all conscious experience.
Materialism omits consciousness from its description of reality, yet everything we know about the physical world comes through conscious experience. Buddhist psychology begins with direct perception and treats consciousness as foundational rather than as an anomaly to be explained away by mechanism.
Manas is the ego-identification layer that claims ownership of experiences and is driven by compulsive self-protection. Mind Consciousness is more flexible and aware of multiple objects simultaneously, yet it too can be trapped in inference and narrative rather than resting in direct perception.
Yes, when visualization is done consciously—knowing you are imagining while doing it—these practices can reach deeper layers of mind that analytical reasoning cannot touch, gradually reseeding patterns and expanding perception beyond habitual narrowness.
Through sustained attention to the gap between direct sensory perception and the mind's interpretation of it. This happens via mindfulness of breath and body, observation of feeling-tone, and gentle non-identification with thought. Practice gradually loosens the automatic overlay of conceptual elaboration.
Interbeing is the insight that nothing exists independently but only in relationship. It cannot be captured in concepts or language; it must be experienced directly through practice. This is why maps and theories ultimately fail—reality is always richer than what can be said about it.
Direct perception is unmediated sensory encounter in the present moment; inference is logical derivation from premises; fallacy is mistaken conclusion from confusion or projection. Most daily experience relies on inference and fallacy rather than direct perception.

Continue Reading

More from Thich

View All
Liberation Through Grief and Self-Worth in Buddhist Practice
Featured

Liberation Through Grief and Self-Worth in Buddhist Practice

Br. Phap Huu explores how recognizing our inherent goodness and learning to grieve openly within community liberates us from suffering and s…

1 min read
Living Gems Archive: Preserving Thích Nhất Hạnh's Dharma for the World
Featured

Living Gems Archive: Preserving Thích Nhất Hạnh's Dharma for the World

Living Gems is a searchable digital archive of Thích Nhất Hạnh's teachings, built by Plum Village to preserve and share the dharma globally …

1 min read
Embrace Suffering with Tenderness: A Practice of Self-Compassion
Featured

Embrace Suffering with Tenderness: A Practice of Self-Compassion

Learn how mindful awakening and intentional daily practices help us meet suffering with compassion rather than judgment, transforming our in…

1 min read
Coming Home Through Mindfulness: Self-Doubt and Worthiness
Featured

Coming Home Through Mindfulness: Self-Doubt and Worthiness

Br. Bao Tang explores the question "Am I good enough?" and how mindfulness and coming home to the present moment can free us from self-doubt…

1 min read

Keep exploring

Continue your journey

More wisdom and gatherings from across the BrightStar directory.

More Articles

Browse the full library of teachings, interviews, and guides.

Back to all articles →

Teachers & Artists

Explore the lineages, musicians, and guides of the conscious world.

Explore artists →

Find an Event

Kirtan, retreats, sound baths, breathwork, festivals — happening soon.

Browse events →
Read more from BrightStarCreate Free Account
Host your own gatherings?Try the Demo